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Thread: Health Care Reform

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    Quote Originally Posted by gas. View Post
    The Post Office isn't failing because of any other issue than people don't send physical mail anymore. This isn't as if they're hemorrhaging money based on poor service or poor management. With any economic downturn, mail gets scaled back by users. Claiming this is a fault of the Post Office is rather unsubstantiated, if nothing other than an attempt to claim the system doesn't work.

    Capitalist school systems would be a nightmare and would boil down to the same exact situation health care falls under: Those with money can afford the good schools and those without get stuck with some shitty schools. This is unacceptable. With this, no standardized curriculum and schools focusing on financial bottom line rather than educational ones.. this is shortsighted. I'm a libertarian and even I can see the shortcomings of a purely open market. It's simply unattainable as long as human nature's greed is involved.

    The main issue facing public schools are the unions (like every other industry), not the system itself.


    Hardly. These systems make up a very small percentage of the nation's budget. The real reason we're in debt is our continually overspending of military. How many years have we built vehicles that could no longer serve a purpose due to how future and current wars are fought? Instead you'd rather people starve off the system? Sounds like a plan. There simply aren't enough jobs to accommodate everyone having health care.


    -- Won't happen, the government will put so much regulation on the insurnace companies that they will not even be able to stand a chance against a public option. I read today that insurance rates are expected to go up 200 to 300 percent just because of this bill.
    Yes, just like private schools, FedEx and UPS have failed against the public option.. Right? This is pundit regurgitating.

    Sure, premiums will go up (see how easily people can twist the facts?) but you'll get much more in return in ways of full coverage and better co-pays. Spending less for shitty coverage versus, spending double and getting much, much more? That's simple mathematics. With this bill you can actually shop around for better rates in a centralized hub -- how's that for capitalism at work?[/QUOTE]

    Here is the budget of the US spending, why don't you take a look at social security and medicad and medicare... Umm and true libertarians do not believe and stick up for the ideals that you are sticking up for. between medicad medicare social security and interest on debt that is 49 percent of our total budget, compared to the 21 percent for our military. Do you realise what will happen if we gut out military? When you owe someone TRILLIONS and you cannot pay it back, eventually you get fucking repod on
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    Look, most of you fail to recognize that this is not up for debate. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties restricting the federal government and empowering the states and people.

    This bill is about control and nothing else, if you believe people in power do this crap out of some altruistic love... (kill yourself now)

    Lets follow your little pipe dreams though to conclusion ok...
    your born you grow up in free government schools, you get a government education for your government job complete with government housing, health insurance, and retirement (ss) and Heck we'll throw in some government transportation too. What else do you need right!

    I mean THINK, you want to give Obama all the control but guess what happens in 4/8 years you could get another G.W. Bush! or Hitler for all we know. I bet Hitler loved universal health care. If you want to depend on the Government from cradle to grave (kill yourself now)

    Next, the National Debt. The CBO says this HC is budget neutral ok they only looked at the first 10years and that includes yep 10years of taxes of us paying them but only 4-6years of benefits and those 4-6years are suppose to cost 1,000,000,000,000 (non gov't estimates put it around 2-2.5 trillion) ---read back over that bit again try to think about it.

    As of right now NOT including the new HC mess We the people owe our Federal government 55,000,000,000,000 think fast you math people that meas you owe personally 350,000 dollars. you wanna write a check for that now or just pass it off onto your children???

    Gas. you wouldn't know a libertarian if you were talking to Ron Paul himself.

    I know posting in a forum is a waste of time so if you want to have a rational argument and debate at least know what your talking about

    start here http://www.usdebtclock.org/
    next http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjB...eature=related

    and when you feel your ready for a Crash course in Reality
    ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

    HERE IS THE NEXUS WATCH AND LEARN OR STFU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOT...sh+div-1r-3-HM

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    ummm, welcome to the forums sprayAndPray?
    Quote Originally Posted by OMGBEARS
    I feel it is important for me to let you know how feeble your efforts to strike such feelings inside of me really are. I have the internal fortitude of a large animal, an elephant, for instance. Likewise, I'm the result of coitus between the devil and a pack mule made out of chainsaws, so I am extremely strong, and carry little care for others in this world. Trees also stand aside due to my chainsaw blood.
    Quote Originally Posted by ๖ReS View Post
    How am I supposed to tell you to fuck off without replying ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavinsky View Post
    God this whole vile buissness is making me sick.
    He or She knows.

    "if the futures been drawn out theres no point in living." sksk
    Quote Originally Posted by acolyte_to_jippity View Post
    within the ruins remins me of a somewhat harder bullet for my valentine

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    The thing I wonder is this the first time that the US has ever passed a bill that had no bipartisan support but did have bipartisanship in its opposition?

    Also by the passing of this law it can be assumed that the government now has the power to regulate and control the distribution of all commodities, now there is a great idea...

    Well lets sum up our current direction:

    "The attempts made by the capitalistic world during the past ten years to decide the question of nationalities by bringing together the principle of the free development of peoples wilh a system of exploitation of man by man have been fruitless. In addition, the number of national conflicts becomes more and more confusing, even menacing the capitalist regime."

    Now tell me if any of the following is not our governments powers:

    "
    It is a society in which powerful productive forces and progressive science and culture have been created, in which the well-being of the people is constantly rising, and more and more favourable conditions are being provided for the all-round development of the individual.

    • (a) To represent the Union in its international relations; to conclude all diplomatic relations; to conclude treaties, political and otherwise, with other States;
    • (b) to modily the exterior frontiers of the Union, as well as to regulate questions concerning the modification of frontiers between the member Republics;
    • (c) to conclude treaties concerning the reception of new Republics inlo the Union;
    • (d) to declare war and to conclude peace;
    • (e) to conclude internal and external loans of the Union and to authorize internal and external loans of the member Republics;
    • (f) to ratify international treaties;
    • (g) to direct commerce with foreign countries and to determine the system of intemal commerce;
    • (h) to establish the basic principles and the general plan of the national economy of the Union; to define the domains of industry and industrial enterprises that are of federal interest; to conclude treaties of concession both federal and in the name of the member Republics;
    • (i) to direct transportation and the postal and telegraph services;
    • (j) to organize and direct the armed forces of the Union;
    • (k) to approve the budget of the federal state which includes the budgets of the memher Republics; to establish duties and federal revenues, making additions and reductions in order to balance the member Republics' budgets; to authorize duties and supplementary taxes to meet the member Republics' budgets;
    • (l) to establish a uniform system of money and credit;
    • (m) to establish general principles of exploitation and use of the earth, as well as those of the sub-soil, the forests, and the waters of the territories of the Union;
    • (n) to establish federal legislation on the emigration from the territory of one of the Republics to the territory of another and to set up a fund for such emigration;
    • (o) to establish principles of the judicial organization and procedure, as well as civil and eriminal legislation for the Union;
    • (p) to establish the fundamental laws regarding work;
    • (q) to establish the general principles regarding public instruction;
    • (r) to establish the general measures regarding public hygiene;
    • (s) to establish a standard system of weights and measures;
    • (t) to organize federal statisties;
    • (u) to fix the fundamental legislation regarding federal nationality, with reference to the rights of foreigners;
    • (v) to exereise the right of amnesty in all territories of the Union;

    The member Republics will make changes in their Constitutions to conform with the present Constitution.

    Just one federal nationality is established for the citizens of the member Republics.

    The land, its natural deposits, waters, forests, mills, factories, mines, rail, water and air transport, banks, post, telegraph and telephones, large state-organized agricultural enterprises (state farms, machine and tractor stations and the like) as well as municipal enterprises and the bulk of the dwelling houses in the cities and industrial localities, are state property, that is, belong to the whole people.

    The right of citizens to personal ownership of their incomes from work and of their savings, of their dwelling houses and subsidiary household economy, their household furniture and utensils and articles of personal use and convenience, as well as the right of inheritance of personal property of citizens, is protected by law.

    Citizens are equal before the law, without distinction of origin, social or property status, race or nationality, sex, education, language, attitude to religion, type and nature of occupation, domicile, or other status.

    Women and men have equal rights

    Exercise of these rights is ensured by according women equal access with men to education and vocational and professional training, equal opportunities in employment, remuneration, and promotion, and in social and political, and cultural activity, and by special labour and health protection measures for women; by providing conditions enabling mothers to work; by legal protection, and material and moral support for mothers and children, including paid leaves and other benefits for expectant mothers and mothers, and gradual reduction of working time for mothers with small children.

    Any direct or indirect limitation of the rights of citizens or establishment of direct or indirect privileges on grounds of race or nationality, and any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness, hostility, or contempt, are punishable by law.

    Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

    Citizens have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

    Citizens have the right to rest and leisure.

    This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.
    Citizens have the right to health protection.

    This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

    Citizens have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

    Citizens have the rights to housing.

    Citizens have the right to education.

    This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.

    Citizens have the right to enjoy cultural benefits.

    This rights is ensured by broad access to the cultural treasures of their own land and of the world that are preserved in state and other public collections; by the development and fair distribution of cultural and educational institutions throughout the country; by developing television and radio broadcasting and the publishing of books, newspapers and periodicals, and by extending the free library service; and by expanding cultural exchanges with other countries.

    The rights of authors, inventors and innovators are protected by the state.

    Citizens have the right to take part in the management and administration of state and public affairs and in the discussion and adoption of laws and measures of All-Union and local significance.

    Every citizen has the right to submit proposals to state bodies and public organisations for improving their activity, and to criticise shortcomings in their work.

    In accordance with the interests of the people, citizens are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly, meetings, street processions and demonstrations.

    Exercise of these political freedoms is ensured by putting public buildings, streets and squares at the disposal of the working people and their organisations, by broad dissemination of information, and by the opportunity to use the press, television, and radio.

    Public organisations are guaranteed conditions for successfully performing the functions defined in their rules.

    Citizens are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited.

    the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church.

    The family enjoys the protection of the state.

    Marriage is based on the free consent of the woman and the man; the spouses are completely equal in their family relations. The state helps the family by providing and developing a broad system of childcare institutions, by organising and improving communal services and public catering, by paying grants on the birth of a child, by providing children's allowances and benefits for large families, and other forms of family allowances and assistance.
    Citizens are guaranteed inviolability of the person. No one may be arrested except by a court decision or on the warrant of a procurator.

    Citizens are guaranteed inviolability of the home. No one may, without lawful grounds, enter a home against the will of those residing in it.

    The privacy of citizens, and of their correspondence, telephone conversations, and telegraphic communications is protected by law.

    Respect for the individual and protection of the rights and freedoms of citizens are the duty of all state bodies, public organisations, and officials.

    Citizens have the right to protection by the courts against encroachments on their honour and reputation, life and health, and personal freedom and property.

    Citizens have the right to lodge a complaint against the actions of officials, state bodies and public bodies. Complaints shall be examined according to the procedure and within the time-limit established by law.

    Actions by officials that contravene the law or exceed their powers, and infringe the rights of citizens, may be appealed against in a court in the manner prescribed by law.
    Citizens' exercise of their rights and freedoms is inseparable from the performance of their duties and obligations.

    Citizens are obliged to concern themselves with the upbringing of children, to train them for useful work, and to raise them as worthy members of society. Children are obliged to care for their parents and help them.

    Citizens are obliged to protect nature and conserve its riches.

    Concern for the preservation of historical monuments and other cultural values is a duty and obligation of citizens

    It is the internationalist duty of citizens to promote friendship and co-operation with peoples of other lands and help maintain and strengthen world peace.

    "

    Well lets all thank the government for giving us all these great promises. Now in order for them to fulfill these promises they need only enough power, which they now have, and I am sure they will take care of us nicely. It is great that finally the people of the United States have a government that is willing to provide them with all of this and surly this will preserve the liberty and natural born rights of every person in America.



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    How about this for ya... Happened today.

    "Let me remind you this has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people." -- Rep. John Dingell (D-MI)

    Love the Soviet Constitution Zero. Fits us right on don't it.
    Last edited by Spasm; 03-24-2010 at 03:39 PM.

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    Nice copypasta of the SOVIET CONSTITUTION lol 1939 constitution of the USSR

    Good Job Zero! I think your on the right track!

    If you think this is great and wonderful I recommend you google the term Holodomor
    In soviet Russia attacked Ukrainian nationalism with Starvation. KillingFarmers, yes farmers they produced more than enough food but Stalin wouldn't let them have it.
    The Holodomor killed FAR MORE than Hitlers Holocaust, to the tune of 10,000,000 Ten Million starved to death by their Nanny state

    And you should see some stats from China and their system (DO SOME RESEARCH)

    And this wasn't some superbad guy misusing a system this is Joseph Stalin a founding father of socialism!
    Last edited by SprayandPrey; 03-24-2010 at 04:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spasm View Post
    How about this for ya... Happened today.

    "Let me remind you this has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re going to pass legislation that will cover 300 American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people." -- Rep. John Dingell (D-MI)

    it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."


    to put the legislation together to control the people."


    to control the people."


    to control




    Oh and btw I've been playing counterstrike for a longtime but just now joined to post to the forums due this topic

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    I am for universal health care, universal education, fire and police protection, as well as federal subsidies for agriculture. We are one of the few first world countries in the world that don't provide universal healthcare for their citizens, and we have the lowest life expectancies amongst them to show for it. Not to mention, medical bills are the prime cause of foreclosures in the U.S. -- mind you foreclosures and toxic assets are what started this recession to begin with. I'd rather pay a little more in taxes for the peace of mind that if I need care, I can get it without having to file for bankruptcy. Peoples health should not be a for-profit thing. If all 300+million Americans were insured by the government for free health care then the risk would be spread out over 300+million Americans, meaning premiums would be MUCH lower than they are now. Not to mention the lack of advertising or phishing costs, lack of overhead due to being a federal agency, and lack of profit-mongering. Premiums (aka taxes at this point) would be very low in exchange for complete coverage.

    If you think America is the greatest nation in the world then you are kidding yourself. Consider being hated the world over for our ignorance, our gluttony, and our "nationalistic pride." Consider the idea that before now, people would be denied lifesaving procedures because their insurance company wants to save some money. Consider the idea that we spend 2% of our GDP on education, the lowest amongst first world countries, and 21% of our GDP on our armed forces and "national security" -- the highest in the world. We as people need to realize the global dynamics are changing, and not in our favor. Instead of proceeding "business as usual" we need to either adapt or get phased out completely. The ignorance displayed by those of you who compared Obama to Hitler or Stalin is just one of many grave blunders commonly demonstrated by the right.

    EDIT:

    OH! And to those of you who compared Obama to Hitler, you are idiots.

    That is all.
    Last edited by OMGBEARS; 03-24-2010 at 05:06 PM.
    Yeah. I'm an admin. What of it?

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