[Suggestion] Ressurection/Respawning

[ShadedFlash]

Hello, new player to the WCS server, but not WCS itself, nor CSS/1.6. Love the community and thought I'd participate on the forums, now that I know there are forums!

So far, my biggest suggestion would be the following, and I apologize if this has been brought up before..

Problem: Any ability in WCS that respawns a player tends to be a free insta kill for the player that killed the respawning victim, sometimes even multiple times. This is due to a combination of factors, actual acknowledgement of respawn (sometimes the message is covered up, goes unnoticed, simply not expecting it, happens..no big deal), aim does not reset to where it was before death..you could be facing an entire other direction sometimes, and finally, the time it takes to pull out the weapon you once had equipped seems to be the biggest issue (sometimes you die before you even get a chance to shoot, defeating the point of the respawn), all tends to lead to a free kill, even with respawn delays.

Solution: 1(or 2, whatever seems the perfect fit) second invulnerability upon respawn. Just long enough for the player to actually have a chance to acknowledge the respawn, get their bearings and have enough time to pull a gun up to actually make their redemption attempt. (if invulnerability is too powerful, perhaps make them immobile or reduced speed during it, so they cannot simply flee during it)

Too many players just seem to sit around bodies for the respawn, especially on population downtimes where there is less chaos with smaller groups, simply handing free xp over to the person that already got the upperhand in killing them and wiping their bought items, etc while often times being a completely involuntary action (no choice to rez or not)

Alternative solutions:
Require players to press a button (1, ultimate bind, etc) to accept a respawn within a given timelimit (up to current respawn time delays), giving the player the choice if and when to respawn, allowing them to be more ready to get their vengeance.

Respawn players back in spawn [similar to warden respawn] with a no spawn camping rule set in place (some maps cannot be helped due to objectives)

Respawn player to the nearest teammate (if spawn is not an ideal place), or to the person actually rezzing them (bringing more potential strategy to rezzing races)

Give respawning players 3 second 100% invis and 100% speed increase (but may not attack?) allowing them to make a quick escape and reposition themselves to attack once again, while still allowing enemies to possibly attack them and kill them before they get away.



Finally, a related question: Is it possible to attach anhks to a round basis instead of respawn basis so that respawns do not eat anhks and cause a player to lose their weapons next round if they die again? also, anhks do not restore weapons upon bomb explosions, bug?

Thanks and glad to be apart of an awesome community!
-ShadedFlash

[Blackmage]

Only problem I see with some of your changes (invun, super speed) is it turns it from a free kill on them to a free kill by them. As with respawns right now, it won't always happen, but it would happen.

I do like the "confirm respawn". Respawning in wards, respawning while falling to my death. It would also give more visibility that you're coming back. Even if it was "deny respawn" to punish those who are not paying attention after round so the lazy don't have to push buttons.

Moving the respawn area could cause other complications, such as respawn by teammate when all of them are dead, taking them away from the objective so they can't win. We'd get used to it though.

However, do we really need to make respawning more powerful? When it works, it's giving that team one more player. I've always looked at respawn killing as a way of dealing with that.

If you're not a stat whore, bind kill to a key, and when in a bad situation upon respawning, spam that key :P NO MORE FREE XP. *Ahem* Not that I do that when a BM respawns me in wards. No, NEVER.

On the Ahnk topic: If it's on round instead of respawn, do you mean whether or not you die, or are you asking for a more fully coded Ahnk? In any case, I do agree, losing it upon mid-round respawn is annoying, but with some races, such as panorama or genocide, if you DON'T have ahnk, you don't have a gun.

The bomb topic: You don't lose items upon bomb death, so you still have your Ahnk, lace ect. upon bomb explosion. So, no, it wouldn't give you items back. This is why races who spawn their guns have no reason NOT to stay with the bomb until death. They lose nothing. Getting people to UNDERSTAND this, however...

[acolyte_to_jippity]

respawn races aren't meant to rambo shit. their strength lies in teamfights. the fact that if your team is working together, the opponents will need to stop focusing your dead body and change to your teammates, which is when the respawning becomes so powerful. if you're expecting to take a respawning race and just go into the midst of the enemies and feel your respawning should make you survive, you're an idiot.

[emTr0]

respawn races aren't meant to rambo shit. their strength lies in teamfights. the fact that if your team is working together, the opponents will need to stop focusing your dead body and change to your teammates, which is when the respawning becomes so powerful. if you're expecting to take a respawning race and just go into the midst of the enemies and feel your respawning should make you survive, you're an idiot.

I actually agree with you.

[Blackmage]

I think there is a reason there wasn't a huge outcry when scrolls got increased like they did

[emTr0]

I think there is a reason there wasn't a huge outcry when scrolls got increased like they did

Yup. Respawners =

[ShadedFlash]

respawn races aren't meant to rambo shit. their strength lies in teamfights. the fact that if your team is working together, the opponents will need to stop focusing your dead body and change to your teammates, which is when the respawning becomes so powerful. if you're expecting to take a respawning race and just go into the midst of the enemies and feel your respawning should make you survive, you're an idiot.

I never used respawn races to 'rambo shit'. As mentioned above, I didn't even know they could respawn themselves until recently. My problem comes from being involuntarily respawned by a teammate and immediately dieing before I even have the chance to run for cover or shoot back.

And even when I have teammates around to "occupy" the enemy during the respawn period (if there is even one, sometimes I respawn immediately), its not that hard for someone to simply switch back to me and quickly pop off a headshot, especially when you die right infront of them or out in the open with no cover anywhere nearby.

---------- Post added at 10:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

not sure what your going on about, talking about when you respawn, you're just basically a free kill... sounds like more of a personal problem 2 me... as I don't share that issue with you... nor do most veterans of the server or people who are good at it.

Most respawns I see or experience are simply a free kill unless the person that killed them is simply terrible or doesn't know about respawning. Quite often, people will get 3-4 kills in a row on the same person respawning 3-4 times in the same place and repeatedly dieing with no chance to do anything. And either way, why should respawning only benefit veterans/"good" players?

Dieing repeatedly with no chance to fight back especially if a new player doesn't understand what is happening, is a quick way to frustrate a player and cause them to leave. (like when someone repeatedly kills a new player with eye ra summon / vagabond / etc) ... give players a chance!

[maynard]

Most respawns I see or experience are simply a free kill

ive yet 2 notice this... and I have a hell of a lot more than 45 hours logged on the serve un like you.... majority of the time when people die on respawns is cause they take their hands off the keyboard/mouse. it's not hard 2 shoot back after you respawn... and any 1 who gets mad and leaves can leave... we're doing fine traffic wise and we're not even back up and running full force...

if you die when you respawn, that's your issue, not a server problem/flaw....

dieing repeatedly with no chance to fight back

Lol no chance 2 fight back? for real? I would suggest putting more into into the server and getting better at it before thinking we need 2 change things.

[Blackmage]

The way I see it, solutions that "stop it from being a free kill" are either making it more powerful, or giving people the option to respawn. But, some weapons, yes, you are mostly a sitting duck, which is why you want to be coming back moving, ducking, jumping or anything. The best option, if you're having these problems, is to be going with friendlies, so you aren't the sole target. If everyone gets mowed down, or aren't cause enough of a distraction, you are having player problems, not ability problems. When you're ramboing, it's your own fault that respawns are free kills.

The problems you mention, being respawned without realizing it, being so out of position that an enemy who is shooting your teammates is right next to you, or being in a position where the enemy was able to get into position AND be looking at you when you come back, are problems with inexperience or gaming ability, not problems with respawning. It will be easier for veterans of FPSs to use, but the only way to get better is to use it many times.

As for frustrating players, if they are going to be frustrated because they can't use a beneficial ability as such, they probably are going to be quite annoyed with EVERY RACE.

A clarification, my statement: "...such as respawn by teammate when all of them are dead..." was responding to "...Respawn player to the nearest teammate..." for self respawning abilities. This is because, being the last T to die when the bomb has been planted may be a unique case, but it's also fairly common.

You can buy an ankh after you're dead. Most respawns, you'll know if you need to buy it before the round ends. If you're buying it while alive, you're risking losing it upon a respawn or bomb explosion. There is a simple way to NOT lose it this way. Buy it after you're dead, and don't bother if you're near the bomb. The exceptions are killed post-objective and time wins, and Panorama. Otherwise, just buy it when you're dead, and all will be fine.

As for the scroll comments, I use the scroll a decent amount still. I'm far from the only one. Considering it's price, it used a good amount. While you won't get 7k that often it isn't that hard to pull off if you're careful with your spending and surviving every few rounds. It still is an important part of WCS, it's just not a game winner. As for a lot of people being pissed, it's been my experience that most people liked that it's a rare item rather than just another snowball item.

[ShadedFlash]

Only problem I see with some of your changes (invun, super speed) is it turns it from a free kill on them to a free kill by them. As with respawns right now, it won't always happen, but it would happen.

I do like the "confirm respawn". Respawning in wards, respawning while falling to my death. It would also give more visibility that you're coming back. Even if it was "deny respawn" to punish those who are not paying attention after round so the lazy don't have to push buttons.

Moving the respawn area could cause other complications, such as respawn by teammate when all of them are dead, taking them away from the objective so they can't win. We'd get used to it though.

However, do we really need to make respawning more powerful? When it works, it's giving that team one more player. I've always looked at respawn killing as a way of dealing with that.

If you're not a stat whore, bind kill to a key, and when in a bad situation upon respawning, spam that key :P NO MORE FREE XP. *Ahem* Not that I do that when a BM respawns me in wards. No, NEVER.

I don't want to make "respawning" more powerful... I just want the chance to defend myself when I pop back up and not hand out free kills/xp while taking a death for nothing, I'd rather simply not respawn at all in that case. So at the very least, I'd like the option to accept a respawn by pressing a button or allowing it to simply expire and stay dead.

The difference between the killer and the victim with respawning is the fact that the killer can regain cover or reposition themselves or run away...the victim cannot.

As for the respawn by teammate, isn't it kind of the point with a respawning race? To rez your teammates to fight along side you once more? If you're alone and you die, the round is over anyway unless you're a terrorist and the bomb is planted...in which case, on that very unique case, you could just respawn where you stood, or simply..too bad? I didn't even known respawning races could respawn themselves in the first place until recently.

On the Ahnk topic: If it's on round instead of respawn, do you mean whether or not you die, or are you asking for a more fully coded Ahnk? In any case, I do agree, losing it upon mid-round respawn is annoying, but with some races, such as panorama or genocide, if you DON'T have ahnk, you don't have a gun.

The bomb topic: You don't lose items upon bomb death, so you still have your Ahnk, lace ect. upon bomb explosion. So, no, it wouldn't give you items back. This is why races who spawn their guns have no reason NOT to stay with the bomb until death. They lose nothing. Getting people to UNDERSTAND this, however...

With the anhk, I just want it to actually work where when I buy it, the weapons I died with the previous round will be returned to me the next round. I don't want it to expire on a respawn, because when you respawn, you get your weapons back anyway, so its pointless to have anhk go away for it.

As for the bomb explosion, while you do not lose the anhk you bought, you lose the weapons you bought the anhk for, kind of self defeating the purpose of buying the anhk.

My problem with this is mainly due to the fact that I prefer to use M4/dualies and its annoying when I lose them due to respawn or bomb explosion.