sv_pure

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

I've previously raised the ire of several people in this community by questioning the decision to not enable sv_pure for at least some resources, but I figured I'd take a stab at it again now that it seems more pertinent. When you uncritically permit customised resources, you end up with people like these (http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/7569-Greenough-Nov-4th-11-35ish-est?p=118680#post118680) on your servers. I know that too many people around here value their customised player and weapon skins more than a fair and even experience for everyone, and that a complete sv_pure would likely never be enacted, but I see absolutely no argument for why sv_pure 1 with a tight whitelist should not be maintained.

Thoughts?

[Rezel]

Sv_Pure will only work on servers which are not using custom mods. Just as sv_pure disables custom skins and textures, it also disables them server side also; in other words its basically like running a modded server that's broken and mod less.

Yes its possible to change this, but overall its not worth the time of handling it.

[Sin]

It wouldn't be difficult to add to the regular Pub #1 server config. All the extra plugins/mods cause retarded registration anyway. Played on there for a few rounds last night.

PS: Zero, you should put the regular server on its own box. It would be the best server ever!

[Rezel]

It wouldn't be difficult to add to the regular Pub #1 server config. All the extra plugins/mods cause retarded registration anyway. Played on there for a few rounds last night.

PS: Zero, you should put the regular server on its own box. It would be the best server ever!

it doesn't need it, your going to have more limitations with the engine before you start backing up the server....

[brett friggin favre]

if it could be reasonably implemented: i'd say do it. however, anyone who makes use of advantage-giving exploits based on our lack of sv_pure will either be banned, or will be inconsequential in the server due to lack of skill. since it would be difficult to implement and maintain the servers as we know them, i'd say at least hold off on it. maybe make one of the servers (pub as suggested above?) a test server for the new setting, and just see how it goes. then if the community likes it, implement it on other servers in the best way we see fit. let the people experience it, then see what the reaction is.

[Chikun]

if it could be reasonably implemented: i'd say do it. however, anyone who makes use of advantage-giving exploits based on our lack of sv_pure will either be banned, or will be inconsequential in the server due to lack of skill. since it would be difficult to implement and maintain the servers as we know them, i'd say at least hold off on it. maybe make one of the servers (pub as suggested above?) a test server for the new setting, and just see how it goes. then if the community likes it, implement it on other servers in the best way we see fit. let the people experience it, then see what the reaction is.

How do you go about proving that someone is using modded skins to have things that make player models stand out more or if they have a red dot for the scout or AWP? Personally, I bet I could probably no-scope someone with a scout down long hall on office because it's such a common camp spot.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

fuck that. what's the point of it?

[Sin]

How do you go about proving that someone is using modded skins to have things that make player models stand out more or if they have a red dot for the scout or AWP? Personally, I bet I could probably no-scope someone with a scout down long hall on office because it's such a common camp spot.

You can't. It's nigh impossible to prove unless the culprit admits to it themselves or is blatantly obvious, as the thread Fluffy referenced showed. This is why sv_pure is on on all competitive CS public servers. I'm not saying IBIS should become a competitive server, as I've always enjoyed fucking around in there with all-talk on, but it really wouldn't hurt the server if many of the plug-ins that have been added over the years were taken off, and possibly substituted with more reasonable plug-ins, ie; zblock...

Don't get me wrong, I could care less if things were to stay as is, this is merely a suggestion or food for thought, as it were.

No trolling here.

[brett friggin favre]

How do you go about proving that someone is using modded skins to have things that make player models stand out more or if they have a red dot for the scout or AWP? Personally, I bet I could probably no-scope someone with a scout down long hall on office because it's such a common camp spot.

gimme an hour to practice and i could do it without skins. what i'm talking about is people who manipulate map textures to have what is equivalent to wallhacks. a red dot with an awp is silly cuz noscoping is pretty inaccurate with it anyway.

[Chikun]

I think it would be a good idea to at least implement it in the Pub server to test it then.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

Sv_Pure will only work on servers which are not using custom mods. Just as sv_pure disables custom skins and textures, it also disables them server side also; in other words its basically like running a modded server that's broken and mod less.

Yes its possible to change this, but overall its not worth the time of handling it.

sv_pure, when set to 1, will check a whitelist file and determine which resources are permitted indiscriminately from the local client, which have to match those present on the server, and which have to be fetched from the Steam cache. I'm not familiar with using sv_pure for mod resources, but the '1' option seems as if it'd permit mods to function perfectly fine with the appropriate whitelist. Even if that isn't the case, regular materials, such as walls and prop skins, that are not altered by mods can almost certainly be restricted to stock by using sv_pure.

As far as time/benefit goes, crafting a fairly simple whitelist to fight people who cheat seems to me like it'd be worth the time.

[Rezel]

You have to look at it more objectively fluffy; let's first use lets say the zombiemod, or the gun game as an example - First off per mod you have on each of those servers you have to configure it so it will allow this particular mod to operate, now lets add that in with all the mods that are on each of the servers separately... It's a lot of work.

Secondly the server has to quarry more, meaning its more for it to handle, the Limitations are not with the processor but its with the SRCDS itself. The more you ask it to handle the more chance its going to crash and have issues. EVEN if we properly tested this to get it to be correct, it would take more time than its even worth. There's already enough crashing issues standing as it is, do we really want to destabilize it more just so we can rid of a few retarded skins?

We could definitely put it on the pub, but surely the gun game would not be worth the time. Zombie mod... Absolutely not.

[Sin]

Even more reason to put Pub #1 on it's own dedicated server. AMIRIGHT?!

[Rezel]

No, it would not help more as you have totally missed the point I'm trying to get across to you...

The flaws in the SRCDS ( Source Dedicated Server) will more than likely be the major cause to most of the issues on the server far before you even dampen the Hosting server. What would be the point of moving it to a new server if your just going to hit the same problem with the program that runs the pub.

[ZERO]

It may be possible for me to just allow everything except for particular things like:
All map textures
Weapon stuff for snipers

That would allow most custom stuff but remove the stuff at highest risk of being bad.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

You have to look at it more objectively fluffy; let's first use lets say the zombiemod, or the gun game as an example - First off per mod you have on each of those servers you have to configure it so it will allow this particular mod to operate, now lets add that in with all the mods that are on each of the servers separately... It's a lot of work.

Secondly the server has to quarry more, meaning its more for it to handle, the Limitations are not with the processor but its with the SRCDS itself. The more you ask it to handle the more chance its going to crash and have issues. EVEN if we properly tested this to get it to be correct, it would take more time than its even worth. There's already enough crashing issues standing as it is, do we really want to destabilize it more just so we can rid of a few retarded skins?

We could definitely put it on the pub, but surely the gun game would not be worth the time. Zombie mod... Absolutely not.

I certainly am looking at it objectively. Resources for mods such as GunGame and ZombieMod are typically held in independent folders that can be exempt from cyclic redundancy checks, and even if the mods were messy, it'd be a matter of doing a directory diff between a clean installation and an installation with the mod, and exempting the changed files. It is at most ten minutes of work per server if it has to be done the hard way.

Additionally, the cyclic redundancy checks are not remarkably intensive. The hashes are calculated client-side, and sent to the server for comparison. If I recall correctly, the hashes for server resources are only performed when the server initially starts up. I understand that there are complexities when mods are involved, but I do think that you're grossly overestimating them.


It may be possible for me to just allow everything except for particular things like:
All map textures
Weapon stuff for snipers

That would allow most custom stuff but remove the stuff at highest risk of being bad.

I would personally prefer at least player skins added to that list, but I realise that some people put skins before just about everything else in this game. There certainly can't be any argument against checking for map and prop textures.

[Chikun]

It may be possible for me to just allow everything except for particular things like:
All map textures
Weapon stuff for snipers

That would allow most custom stuff but remove the stuff at highest risk of being bad.

How does the phrase go? The simplest answer is often the best answer?

[Rezel]

I am not grossly overestimating them, as I have had to deal with sv_pure many times before. Besides that you might end up loosing more people by doing that as most of us like custom skins. There is no real reason to do it, yeah someones going to use some cheap skins but compared to bigger fish its not really a big issue.



How does the phrase go? The simplest answer is often the best answer?

There's also K.I.S.S - Keep It Simple Stupid, but in this case you can just remove the Stupid.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

honestly, the only ones you should bother putting on the whitelist is map textures. nothing else. at all.

if someone is going to cheat w/ the snipers, then they could just as easy put a dot on their screen. it's not going to change anything.

[Steamer]

Map/prop textures over all. Everything else is just meh.
Agreed with the dot.
Less hacker catching.... QQ

[Spasm]

Map textures needs to be done. I think you can skip on most other stuff

[brett friggin favre]

How does the phrase go? The simplest answer is often the best answer?

ockham's razor!

sorry i was just really proud that i remembered that.

but yeah. map textures for sure, and if someone wants to try to run around noscoping people with a lazer sight skin....whaaatever they're retarded anyway lol cuz it's cheaper and easier to get kills with any other gun in the game.

[Steamer]

Or knife.... ^

[checkster]

I hope this will apply for all servers ?
And editing the pure_whitelist is realy easy.
Adding server side models, skins, and sounds are done in a heartbeat.

I must add that adding the command sv_pure 1 is best done in the autoexec.cfg, other wise it wont actually load when the server starts. It will load on map change.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

I hope this will apply for all servers ?
And editing the pure_whitelist is realy easy.
Adding server side models, skins, and sounds are done in a heartbeat.

I must add that adding the command sv_pure 1 is best done in the autoexec.cfg, other wise it wont actually load when the server starts. It will load on map change.


don't necro. this issue was already resolved at time of original posting. some of us lik,e to use skins on our guns, and the only issues arise when said skins give an unfair advantage.

[checkster]

don't necro. this issue was already resolved at time of original posting. some of us lik,e to use skins on our guns, and the only issues arise when said skins give an unfair advantage.

Well as it is atm people can use material hacks, but sv pure will stop that. -adding weapon skins to list is easy.( Allowing weapon skins )

[CYBER]

Well as it is atm people can use material hacks, but sv pure will stop that. -adding weapon skins to list is easy.( Allowing weapon skins )
1 question. why?

[checkster]

1 question. why?

Why people can use materialhacks ?
Pretty much since all servers are using sv_pure 0.
With sv_pure 1 they will be automatically blocked, and like I stated above, people can still use custom gun skins, as long as they are allowed in the white_pure list.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Why people can use materialhacks ?
Pretty much since all servers are using sv_pure 0.
With sv_pure 1 they will be automatically blocked, and like I stated above, people can still use custom gun skins, as long as they are allowed in the white_pure list.\

yeah but...wallhacks are normally encountered and dealt with here. all the time.

if there are people you believe to be hacking, please submit a ban request thread in the appropriate section.

[checkster]

\

yeah but...wallhacks are normally encountered and dealt with here. all the time.

if there are people you believe to be hacking, please submit a ban request thread in the appropriate section.

That much I understand, but sv_pure helps alot, and most people who cheat this way are good at hiding it.
Its just my opinion on the sv_pure matter, but if its handled and under control thats just a good.

[Sin]

It is an easy change to make, and eliminates a possible way for people to cheat on the servers. It was already stated in the thread IIRC. Why anyone would be against this is beyond me.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

It is an easy change to make, and eliminates a possible way for people to cheat on the servers. It was already stated in the thread IIRC. Why anyone would be against this is beyond me.

This thread has its fair share of people irrationally dismissing a concept that they don't seem to fully understand.

[Sin]

Same issue with zblock. "It'll help make the servers have a more even playing field?! NO NO out of the question!"

[checkster]

Same issue with zblock. "It'll help make the servers have a more even playing field?! NO NO out of the question!"

Actually zblock is pointless atm since the servers run kigen's anti cheat. Witch might also be why sv_pure 1 is not added.
Tho the only anti wallhack kigen have is based on a client using a exe file, modules is called eagle eye test. ( If anyone want to know how it works I suggest google, since its pointless for me to write what is already written. )
Tho in my personal opinion Id use smac, ( sourcemod anti cheat ) over kigen's anti cheat.