Night STEAM_0:1:141165 16/10/12

[brett friggin favre]

9000: nothing. he's covering his team's ass, knowing that since nobody went front they're vulnerable from the rear. deez came through spawn a bit prior, and he was a vaga so that's why night figures no reason for the flashlight, and why he goes back to see if anyone was following deez. he checks the spot but doesn't react til the target is WELL in view, no evidence here.

22000: night was previously shooting at crim out front and saw him retreat. he could have either gone up into the front office or under it, to the back yard. then he saw his teammates go take the front office, no criminol in there. logically the only place he can be is out back, he ran towards the location in tandem with a teammate from lower who cleared all spots except near that back wall. that is the only place crim could be, no evidence here.

30500: people out front on radar, killing his teammates, he knows he's about to be flanked and he's the last man back, so he holds up the rear. again no reaction to the enemy til he's well in sight. no evidence here.

31100: i see no real twitch, nothing non-human anyway. he does realign his gun slightly a bit before the guy gets there but that hardly constitutes evidence. also, hesitation to prefire? prefire is prefire, if you hesitate to prefire, it's not prefiring...it's just firing.

58300: what owns said, clear audio signal that a guy came through the window. since he could also hear the knife specifically, it's not from some other fight going on.

70600: this is the only fishy tick i see. however it's a common spot, and he could just figure he's stuck in molecule so he might as well check that spot. if there's any prefire, it could be explained by just guessing that someone's there and trying to bait them to take him on while he's in molecule. it's certainly fishy but there are other explanations for his behavior.

not enough here. everything can be explained in a perfectly logical way. i see no evidence for walls and nothing concrete for esp. keep an eye on him but if he was being sneaky about it before, he'll be even more careful now. no extensive history of hacks, just 2 bans on other servers, one for user.cfg import and one for "hacks" which i'm gonna discredit as being pretty unprofessional. can't fault you for making the ban though, and in my mind it's better to make the ban and be incorrect than to just let it go.

since owns' vote was changed to yes, as i post voting stands at 1-1, thread is STILL OPEN.

[CYBER]

Hmmm not bad tom, not bad. At least someone else is questioning the same questions i did. And owns , again, wallhackers know better than to trace someone.,,,, they'd always look away.. Go to that tick at 22k, what do u see? U see him going towards that windown looking outilskde (fine, away criminol)... But look closer, what is he looking at? He literally traces nthn in that spot, he looks above the container which he already saw that no one was there. If he really wanted to check that spot for no fucking reason whatsoever, wouldnt he at leadt take a look at the bottom because he ALREADY saw that there no one top left? Looking at the window was an excuse, he wasnt checkig spots hidden, he went and looked st a spot visible feom away, as an excuse while holdig molecule, to go and find that guy there. And owns, again, he wasnt on radar, sound or nthn, and he never ever went there ever again, after passing by that spot 3 other times....

[XX0wnsXY]

9000: nothing. he's covering his team's ass, knowing that since nobody went front they're vulnerable from the rear. deez came through spawn a bit prior, and he was a vaga so that's why night figures no reason for the flashlight, and why he goes back to see if anyone was following deez. he checks the spot but doesn't react til the target is WELL in view, no evidence here.

22000: night was previously shooting at crim and saw him retreat. then he saw his teammates go take the front office, no criminol in there. logically the only place he can be is out back, he ran towards the location in tandem with a teammate from lower who cleared all spots except near that back wall. that is the only place crim could be, no evidence here.

30500: people out front on radar, killing his teammates, he knows he's about to be flanked and he's the last man back, so he holds up the rear. again no reaction to the enemy til he's well in sight. no evidence here.

31100: i see no real twitch, nothing non-human anyway. he does realign his gun slightly a bit before the guy gets there but that hardly constitutes evidence. also, hesitation to prefire? prefire is prefire, if you hesitate to prefire, it's not prefiring...it's just firing.

58300: what owns said, clear audio signal that a guy came through the window.

70600: this is the only fishy tick i see. however it's a common spot, and he could just figure he's stuck in molecule so he might as well check that spot. if there's any prefire, it could be explained by just guessing that someone's there and trying to bait them to take him on while he's in molecule. it's certainly fishy but there are other explanations for his behavior.

not enough here. everything can be explained in a perfectly logical way. i see no evidence for walls and nothing concrete for esp. keep an eye on him but if he was being sneaky about it before, he'll be even more careful now. no extensive history of hacks, just 2 bans on other servers, one for user.cfg import and one for "hacks" which i'm gonna discredit as being pretty unprofessional. can't fault you for making the ban though, and in my mind it's better to make the ban and be incorrect than to just let it go.

since owns' vote was changed to yes, as i post voting stands at 1-1, thread is STILL OPEN.

LOL now im confused . Im glad that someone else saw what I saw originally. I SHOULD HAVE STUCK TO MY FUCKING GUNS. LOL

[Erdenay]

22k, criminol may have not been on radar but his teammates were heading in that direction. I noticed that his teammates were there and even if he happened to wander over there, once he got there, he didn't immediately react. It appeared that he had intent to look outside of the window and in the snow, however saw criminol and reacted.

30k and the other one where he waits in spawn, like I said, are iffy. He does it twice and yes, enemies are near both times, but it's not a secret that players come that direction.

IMO 76K is the only tick that made me really question, however, I also considered the cirumstances (as explained in my old post).

My job as ULA is to watch a demo, try to debunk what I can (ghost hunters style) and think of ALL possible solutions (within reason) before screaming hacks, which is what I did. Watching the demo, I could not make a decision..which is why I voted no. If there is ANY doubt, i don't vote yes. Ban threads require more than one ULA for a reason..the right decision will be made and I'm not saying it will be yes or no..but it will be the right one.

For 22k, what Cyber said is completely true. There was absolutely no reason for him to go there as normally you won't find any T's there and there were a lot of teammates as you noted, who had his back. The point here is not the reaction - good hackers try to hide the fact that they hack under various different tactics - it's the fact that he went there to check the place ONCE seemingly out of random when there was a guy even though it's not in his pattern and that spot wouldn't make a lot of sense to check.

30k - yes, but again, the only time he waits are those 2 ticks. I've actually played a Devil's advocate to Cyber about this last night and IMO, it's not conclusive enough alone, but along with all other BS, it should be enough.

76k - yeah I saw that, but I honestly think that those circumstances were not completely valid - if you take into account everything else.

I fully understand that and I'm not trying to argue about that - I argued about this ban with Cyber last night about some of the ticks he used. Yeah, I realize that - I just wanted to understand your reasoning for some of those ticks and add my 2 cents about it.

[XX0wnsXY]

For 22k, what Cyber said is completely true. There was absolutely no reason for him to go there as normally you won't find any T's there and there were a lot of teammates as you noted, who had his back. The point here is not the reaction - good hackers try to hide the fact that they hack under various different tactics - it's the fact that he went there to check the place ONCE seemingly out of random when there was a guy even though it's not in his pattern and that spot wouldn't make a lot of sense to check.

30k - yes, but again, the only time he waits are those 2 ticks. I've actually played a Devil's advocate to Cyber about this last night and IMO, it's not conclusive enough alone, but along with all other BS, it should be enough.

76k - yeah I saw that, but I honestly think that those circumstances were not completely valid - if you take into account everything else.

I fully understand that and I'm not trying to argue about that - I argued about this ban with Cyber last night about some of the ticks he used. Yeah, I realize that - I just wanted to understand your reasoning for some of those ticks and add my 2 cents about it.

Well, as i've royally fucked this one up..im going to step away from this thread now and let the other ULAs weigh in.

[CYBER]

Well, as i've royally fucked this one up..im going to step away from this thread now and let the other ULAs weigh in.

gd move. best you could have made now lol, its a tough case...

it's having everyone go back and forth, and i understand ur position, i've been in that spot... hence why im saying its a good move that u tied the votes and got out of the equation, now we need to other ULAs to weigh in...
personally i think that ALL ula need to weigh in on this,u guys are 5 people since im excluded of this... 5 votes will tip off the balance for sure, and i really believe it will require all of them...

spasm expressed that he wants to watch this. good.
in that case, steamr and scribble should post their opinions as well about what they see ... might be the ONLY chance to ever catch this guy.. ever again.

[Erdenay]

Well, as i've royally fucked this one up..im going to step away from this thread now and let the other ULAs weigh in.

Wouldn't go as far as to say that. You've had your reasoning and it did made sense - furthermore, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes, so IMO, don't worry about this. I'm really curious what Streamer/Spasm will say about this. Hopefully, if I'll have enough time before my lab, I'll write a rebuttal for Brett as well.

[Erdenay]

9000: nothing. he's covering his team's ass, knowing that since nobody went front they're vulnerable from the rear. deez came through spawn a bit prior, and he was a vaga so that's why night figures no reason for the flashlight, and why he goes back to see if anyone was following deez. he checks the spot but doesn't react til the target is WELL in view, no evidence here.

22000: night was previously shooting at crim out front and saw him retreat. he could have either gone up into the front office or under it, to the back yard. then he saw his teammates go take the front office, no criminol in there. logically the only place he can be is out back, he ran towards the location in tandem with a teammate from lower who cleared all spots except near that back wall. that is the only place crim could be, no evidence here.

30500: people out front on radar, killing his teammates, he knows he's about to be flanked and he's the last man back, so he holds up the rear. again no reaction to the enemy til he's well in sight. no evidence here.

31100: i see no real twitch, nothing non-human anyway. he does realign his gun slightly a bit before the guy gets there but that hardly constitutes evidence. also, hesitation to prefire? prefire is prefire, if you hesitate to prefire, it's not prefiring...it's just firing.

58300: what owns said, clear audio signal that a guy came through the window. since he could also hear the knife specifically, it's not from some other fight going on.

70600: this is the only fishy tick i see. however it's a common spot, and he could just figure he's stuck in molecule so he might as well check that spot. if there's any prefire, it could be explained by just guessing that someone's there and trying to bait them to take him on while he's in molecule. it's certainly fishy but there are other explanations for his behavior.

not enough here. everything can be explained in a perfectly logical way. i see no evidence for walls and nothing concrete for esp. keep an eye on him but if he was being sneaky about it before, he'll be even more careful now. no extensive history of hacks, just 2 bans on other servers, one for user.cfg import and one for "hacks" which i'm gonna discredit as being pretty unprofessional. can't fault you for making the ban though, and in my mind it's better to make the ban and be incorrect than to just let it go.

since owns' vote was changed to yes, as i post voting stands at 1-1, thread is STILL OPEN.

I'm not sure if you've watched the whole demo, Brett, but if not, I'd highly recommend. Take a notice at patterns and movements (lets give him a benefit of a doubt for somehow pretty much always conveniently popping out at the right time) and how they are different than those ticks listed by Cyber.

9k - IMO, by far the weakest as I've told Cyber, this means nothing and if not for the fact that the only time he camps there would be 2 times when there are people coming from behind him AND that he turns off his flashlight magically right before the guy appears, it would mean next to nothing.

22k - somewhat disagreed. Yes, he did shoot Criminol before, but there's more than one hiding spot there and it seems like he was fixated to heading to the EXACT spot where Criminol was waiting.

30k - I actually told Cyber that both this tick and 9k were the weaker ones for me, BUT that adjustment is rather convenient and this tick goes into the bigger picture when you considering everything else there. Furthermore, he didn't exactly know where his teammate died (my radar didn't show the precise location) and a fair amount of time has passed while his teammates were moving on, thus it's really ODD that he decided to wait for such a long time in that spot until someone showed up.

58k - I'd just like to add while you heard that window crash, the prefire was somewhat odd + furthermore so you'd leave your back COMPLETELY open especially since you knew he was coming (grenade)?

70k has been discussed to death and I don't really see anything I can add that hasn't been said or can't be seen.



The first night when this fucker joined, I told Cyber that I was pretty sure he's been hacking - and he's been pulling all kind of BS through out his time here. There's plenty of people that have seen his BS on regular basis and just because we haven't banned him yet, doesn't mean that he wasn't hacking either. The ticks provided along with a lot of general BS moments in the demo are enough for me, but we'll see what Spasm and other ULA's will say.

[tj26]

I was playing in the demo and it was quite odd. When he first joined the server he was always getting insane scores i always thought he was hacking but no admins ever said anything about it so i let it go. Glad it was finally brought up at least, he tends to do better when no admins are in the server tho just saying

[CYBER]

for some ula's that are confused...and think that the thread got closed, it didnt. Read the comments, not the poll:

Brett voted No.
Owns voted Yes.
Cyber voted Yes (not that it matters but i did make the damn thread u know).

So steamr, scribble and spasm can still vote now.

The thread id STILL open.



edit: steamr updated the demo, now u can watch after tick 85k , and apparently steamr says there is some juicy shit there.