Proposed WCS Race Changes

[brett friggin favre]

After some hours on the wcs server, seeing what races are used and when, seeing what their strengths and weaknesses are, seeing what races they counter and what counters them, I've come up with a list of a few, generally small, changes I'd like to see in some of the WCS races. Going down in the order they appear in the races section. I know some of what I'm proposing isn't excatly how it was back in the day, but change isn't always a bad thing. All I'm doing is proposing a few changes that I think would make the game more fun, and based on the discussions around the community I think a lot of the players would agree with a lot of this. So before you just say no, it's not how it was, just consider these and think about how they might impact the server. This is open to discussion and if people leave some ideas I think might help, they'll be added to this post.

1. Undead
No changes proposed.

2. Human
Fix that goddamn bash, it really fucks everything up, and I think most everyone can agree it's one of the most OP races, given its difficulty to be seen, high amount of health, and ability to elude via teleport. That combination makes it one of the best defensive races out there, and the way bash fucks up your aim makes it one of the best offensive races as well. That makes it the single most whored race as well, and I think that's not what we want...people just playing one race, it gets old.

3. Orcish Horde
From spasm - give a warning sound for reincarnation. Sometimes the warning doesn't work, especially if there are votes going on.

4. Night Elf
Give trueshot aura some sort of animation or sound, if there isn't one. I can't recall ever knowing that trueshot aura went off, and most other damage increasing abilities have some kind of animation or sound or at least a notification in chat. Maybe I've just missed it all this time though.

5. Blood Mage
Reduce the chance on banish to 20-25% at max level. Just a small decrease, seems like every time i see a blood mage it procs and it's bloody impossible to shoot anything with that on you. Possibly increase the effect of siphon mana, or make it some fixed amount of money instead of a percentage.

6. Shadow Hunter
Make the animation of the wards display their effective radii. Also make Big Bad Voodoo similar to molecule in terms of invulnerability (lace doesn't allow you to shoot through it, just prevents it from being used).

7. Warden
Shadow strike's a little weak, but I like the lingering effect. Just wish it did more damage, either 10-15 initial damage (at max level) or a percentage.

8. Crypt Lord
No changes proposed.

9. Archmage Proudmoore
Change Weapon of the Sorcerer to give you a Famas + Deagle, make it 100%. The slow flight speed of this race makes it underutilized compared to Dragon Fly/Santa/Strider, and having a 50% chance to get a weapon just seems like a cruel joke sometimes. 100% on an M4 would be kinda...much, but on a Famas, or even Galil would be more balanced.

10. Flame Predator
No changes proposed.

11. Molecule
No changes proposed, I like how this race interacts with Shadow Hunter, great example of a counter race.

12. Genocide
Regeneration, the description isn't clear, it's a life steal basically right? Why not describe it in the same way as the others? Also, check the coding on it, It seems like you should get a nice chunk of HP when it goes off if, but I've never once noticed myself gaining any help from it. Could it be giving you 1/4 to 1/2.5 of an HP point?

Also, the grenades don't do additional damage if they blow up while you're dead. I don't think the status of the thrower should matter after the nade is thrown, and it's annoying to use deja vu, sacrifice yourself to get a good nade thrown, die, and then just have it be a normal nade instead of one of the fuckshitup nades.

13. Spider-Man
No changes proposed.

14. Succubus Hunter
Head hunter's a strange talent. Part of what it does is give you additional XP...but this race requires the least amount of XP to max. That part just seems misplaced.

15. Panorama
No changes proposed. Fun race.

16. Vagabond
No changes proposed.

17. Strider Hiryu
Not played too much but there's nothing wrong with it in my eyes. No changes proposed.

18. Raiden
No changes proposed.

19. Hell hunter
No changes proposed.

20. Chameleon
No changes proposed. FUUUUN.

21. Hells Demon
With how fast this race can be, I'd like to propose a knife option. Make sickle cause double or triple your power in damage with a knife, and make it 50% or so chance to proc when using a knife.

22. Magician
No changes proposed.

23. Shadow of the Void
No changes proposed.

24. Eye Ra
EDITED: No changes proposed.

25. Nebula
Maser seems a bit...overkill. Too powerful compared to similar abilities. Also consider a slightly longer cooldown on the ultimate. And why does it have 2 damaging abilities anyway? You have a 60% chance to do additional damage with this thing, can be invisible 50% of the time, and if you deal , say, 18 damage with a shot (i'm thinking approximately a p90 to the chest) you end up dealing (18*2.4) 43 damage? And it says "more damage", so does that mean 43 on top of the 18, making a chest shot with a p90 deal ~61 damage? Like a scout? While you're invisible and are reviving teammates left and right? If you're using an ak, let's say you do 30 damage with a chest shot, that does 72 damage, if it's in addition to the original shot, a chest shot from an AK now does more damage than a standard headshot with an M4 against someone with a helmet. And on top of that chance, there's a 33% chance to do something like 10 additional damage, so if you don't get that one hit kill, you're still gonna be a killing machine. Just seems a bit out of proportion and frankly, reeeeally OP.

26. Die Xonvert
Same thing as with Genocide, check the coding on Blood Lust, I feel like It's not up to snuff when compared to the other lifestealing abilities.

27. Beast
No changes proposed.

28. Rapscallion
A lot has been made of this race's low KDR, and relative incompetence compared to the other knife/invis races. The ultimate shouldn't be visible through walls in my opinion, but I can see why it's kept that way. The issue here is that it's billed as an "ambush race." It doesn't seem right that a perfectly set up ambush fails 78% of the time. Let's say you're perfectly set up. you see 3 enemies go by you, you're unnoticed. You unstealth (they probably hear you, so right there your cover's blown. Possibly get rid of the sound coming out of stealth.), you get right up behind the guy in back, and backstab him. You may kill him, BUT
1. we've all had those knifes right into someone's back that somehow register as front hits
2. A proper backknife does 165 damage, and your target may well have more than that
3. None of that matters really if blades procs, but it ONLY procs 22% of the time.
So you stab him, he has about a 30% chance to die. Whether or not he does, you're pretty boned, because either he can turn around and blow your head off, or his teammates will. And since they can see you stealth through walls, it's tough to make a getaway.

tl;dr, 3 problems with this race are 1) Stealth showing through walls, 2) sound when leaving stealth, 3) low proc chance on blades.

29. Athena
Sometimes the tether to your target doesn't show up. Not sure what causes it, but that's the only thing that could be fixed with Athena.

30. Dragon Fly
No changes proposed.

31. Jack
"Clubs: 18-33% chance to push enemy when hit." It throws the enemy straight into the air, instead of what I'd think of as "pushing them." Wouldn't it be fun to just kinda shove the guy around on the ground, have it act a bit like a slightly more powerful admin slap? You know how it just kinda knocks em around on the ground for a few hits before really popping them into the air? I think that would be a bit more balanced and more fun than just shooting them into the air.

32. Vagalion
No changes proposed

33. Santa
No changes proposed.

[Dj panda]

FIX THE FUCKING HUMAN! It should not fuck up your crosshair by moving it. It is a complete bullshit thing. i can understand a bash but not a Fuck up your crosshair thing. Make the wards Bigger image wise to show thier true radius, i agree. I dont agree with the Archmage, its a fairly bland class, giving it the m4 and deagle make it worthwhile to level at least. The famas FUCKING SUCKS! Eye ra works on Vagas from far away it doesnt need a fix cause it aint broke :P Nebula is a very op race with the p90 or tmp, and it rezs and it can go 100% invisible, quite the punch, but its a fun race to play at that Rapscallion just fucking sucks, give it the vaga sound but no cloud, Get rid of the damn rings they are broken, dont edit them just get rid of them. Blades dont proc on it at all making it useless just about when knifing. Not a fun race AT ALL

[Spasm]

Regeneration and Bloodlust need a boost in health stolen imo. I would recommend jack levels of life steal or santa.
Leave clubs alone on jack.
All life stealing races need code to go over max hp like santa.
Eye ra works fine you have to shoot them for lens of truth.
Blood mage is a weak race and needs banish left alone.
Nebula is the counter to human and should be left as is.
Some of the stuff I don't agree with, but I do agree with some of it.

[Chef C Green]

Respect the approach taken on this thread, and most particularly the desire for some decent organization to keep the ideas concise...

Too many races to really touch on each without losing my head, so I'll just comment on some;

Human: +1 about bash management

Night Elf: +1 for visual/notification of trueshot

Shadow Hunter: Radius should be more accurately represented. It's a give away if you hit it when it's out of sight as the enemy hears it go off, you get stuck because you're so deep into the ward you didn't see it, and when the fire fight comes, you're down 30-40% hp because you had no way of knowing it was lurking behind the door. A little hidden is fine, but it seems rather excessive given the advantages.

Genocide: All +1 ideas imo

Eye of Ra: A small radius would be nice, kind of like a "Well, you just swooped in and killed me, but now you're a sitting duck in my pack of teammates =D". To hit the vaga you have to be paying close attention or waste entire clips for spraying, radius would be a nice backlash making EoR more of a "team player" race that can do some more good for a group, not just camp.

Rapscallion: I wouldn't say the blade procs are ALL that unfair (usually 30-50%) considering what an advantage it has in stealth. I would much rather see the ultimate not visible through textures to allow for some escape possibilities seeing as he can't very easily maneuver like vagalion for instance. Additionally, the footsteps are the worst drawback for this, because you're never going to get the kind of edge that is key for an ambush. I would propose a separate item (probably been brought up before, idk), to cancel out footsteps, make it something like 3.5-5k?

Jack: Changing clubs to register as if it were a slap command would be a great improvement imo. The straight up launching is an easy target for the opponent. With the added damage of hearts and diamonds, keep the player on his toes by never knowing which way you'll be slapped. It gives the victim opportunities to counter as well, as opposed to being a sitting duck against the ceiling.

[maynard]

Eye of Ra: A small radius would be nice, kind of like a "Well, you just swooped in and killed me, but now you're a sitting duck in my pack of teammates =D". To hit the vaga you have to be paying close attention or waste entire clips for spraying, radius would be a nice backlash making EoR more of a "team player" race that can do some more good for a group, not just camp.

it's eye ra and eye ra is fine (regarding what you're complaining about) it's a support class and should be played as such, and doing it's summons in confined spaces so any fast or teleporting race cant take off on ya. Ive never had issues killing vegas with it.

[brett friggin favre]

Rapscallion: I wouldn't say the blade procs are ALL that unfair (usually 30-50%)

% proc chance at max level is 22. not 30 or 50. also note that vagalion (cleeeearly a far superior class) has 50% proc chance on blades. much more mobility, and more than twice the blades procs. seems kinda silly. even as far as an ambush race goes, vagalion can get to a hiding spot quicker, can't be seen stealthing through walls, can chase better, can kill faster and more reliably, and can escape much easier. every single aspect of vagalion is superior to that of rapscallion, it really needs to be redone.

as for eye ra, that may be fine, i haven't really played it much and when i do it's usually in the hostie room on assault, where vagas aren't an issue anyway.

[Assassin]

it's eye ra and eye ra is fine (regarding what you're complaining about) it's a support class and should be played as such, and doing it's summons in confined spaces so any fast or teleporting race cant take off on ya. Ive never had issues killing vegas with it.

Yeah unless they are frozen when you hear them (or shortly after bc of the sounds) then there "stuck" and pop back to where they were.

[Crazyyoshi]

I dont think raps should have its blades proc increase, but have lion and bonds decrease. making them more of a challenge to play rather than a kill all. Seeing as how they all can turn invis makes it harder for people to kill them. No need to make there damage be crazy high as well. But I do agree with the rings through the wall. But if it has the same sound as the vagas then people will be freaking out all over the place even more. I say keep the smoke but no sound. Making people work hard for there kills still but you can still catch them without the risk of complaints of them being over powered.

[StarsMine]

I dont think raps should have its blades proc increase, but have lion and bonds decrease. making them more of a challenge to play rather than a kill all. Seeing as how they all can turn invis makes it harder for people to kill them. No need to make there damage be crazy high as well. But I do agree with the rings through the wall. But if it has the same sound as the vagas then people will be freaking out all over the place even more. I say keep the smoke but no sound. Making people work hard for there kills still but you can still catch them without the risk of complaints of them being over powered.

Vagalion/bond simply put has a higher skill cap then most classes. Its not that its a kill all race, it just that skilled players can take better advantage of what that race has to offer. Unlike say void that has a low skill cap, an average player with void will do almost as well as a really really good player with void.

[Spasm]

Respect the approach taken on this thread, and most particularly the desire for some decent organization to keep the ideas concise...

Too many races to really touch on each without losing my head, so I'll just comment on some;

Human: +1 about bash management

Night Elf: +1 for visual/notification of trueshot

Shadow Hunter: Radius should be more accurately represented. It's a give away if you hit it when it's out of sight as the enemy hears it go off, you get stuck because you're so deep into the ward you didn't see it, and when the fire fight comes, you're down 30-40% hp because you had no way of knowing it was lurking behind the door. A little hidden is fine, but it seems rather excessive given the advantages.

Genocide: All +1 ideas imo

Eye of Ra: A small radius would be nice, kind of like a "Well, you just swooped in and killed me, but now you're a sitting duck in my pack of teammates =D". To hit the vaga you have to be paying close attention or waste entire clips for spraying, radius would be a nice backlash making EoR more of a "team player" race that can do some more good for a group, not just camp.

Rapscallion: I wouldn't say the blade procs are ALL that unfair (usually 30-50%) considering what an advantage it has in stealth. I would much rather see the ultimate not visible through textures to allow for some escape possibilities seeing as he can't very easily maneuver like vagalion for instance. Additionally, the footsteps are the worst drawback for this, because you're never going to get the kind of edge that is key for an ambush. I would propose a separate item (probably been brought up before, idk), to cancel out footsteps, make it something like 3.5-5k?

Jack: Changing clubs to register as if it were a slap command would be a great improvement imo. The straight up launching is an easy target for the opponent. With the added damage of hearts and diamonds, keep the player on his toes by never knowing which way you'll be slapped. It gives the victim opportunities to counter as well, as opposed to being a sitting duck against the ceiling.

http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/sho...11-So-long-WCS That's for you chef.

Blade procs closer to 40% with claw which is why it seems to be more then 22.
Vagabond and lion are easy to counter and anyone that complains about either obviously have not spent enough time on wcs server. There is several other races that are much more OP and way harder to counter then to be crying about them. I am looking at you yoshi.