Beta Shop Menu Balance Released

[maynard]

I prefer there be no effect.

with an effect you will know that it's someone who has the item, and more nades... and that there will most likely be more of them coming your way soon... it's also generally the classes that have abilities on nades who purchase the item... so if you see some form of effect, you'll know 2 stay back and play it safe... I like the concept of people fearing nades all the times as they wont know if it's just a standard nade, or one that most likely has a ability on it 2 boot.

[ZERO]

Rgr, with that I will now give 6 hours to report any bugs with the system currently in place on the test server. After that all current changes will go live.

[Erdenay]

Agreed - no effects are necessary.

[ZERO]

changes are live

[What]

So far has been working well at providing the losing team a chance to get some wins, but not enough where bad players become good. Like it.

[CYBER]

I like the system. It helped unstacking BIG TIME.

However i do have a concern. Personally, if the loosing team wins 8 times in a row, then clearly the system did it's job in counter balancing the game. But i personally think that if the loosing team wins 4 times in a row, the system should reset (no discount) since they already have the upper hand and stacked cheap items. (at least until they lose twice in a row again)

Now the 'winning' team is struggling to buy shit at higher prices. This can lead the loosing team to tie up the winner almost instantly and simply becomes a battle of 'i managed to get more items than u at cheaper prices, try to match my items at higher prices!"...

Again. At 4+ wins, the discount should stop. And ONLY reactivate if the loosing team (who won the last rounds) loses twice in a row again. This WILL prove that the only thing balancing the game was their shop, and they can have it back.
But if they didnt lose twice in a row, then the system did what it had to do and to keep giving that second team discounted item is overkilling it...

The objective of playing css is not for one team to win 10 times in a row, then the other team nail the winnin team all the way back to a tie with countinuously discounted shit... Makes no sense! The system is there to give theloosig team a PUSH, not make them item-stacking-op-whores...

also, on another note. SCROLLS OF RESPAWN should be capped at a -50% off at most.
I was playing yesterday with balto on 1 team. Pretty much him and I were the entire T side team, doing most of the raping work. we probably went 15-0 right off the bat.
The shop menu kicks in , thats neat... but to go all the way to them tie-ing our game AND winning us 18-16 ? come ON...
Clearly it's no longer a player stacking scenario, but an item-stacking fest...

and there's my comment about the scrolls... the ONE time we had a chance to win, the entire team scrolled back in game with a 2.2k scroll...
And we killed half of them? oh no nevermind, they RESCROLLED back in...AGAIN... and AGAIN... and AGAIN... thats more respawns than bloodmages!
I mean seriously... if you can buy 7 scrolls per game just because you happened to be on the losing team? it makes it impossible for the "winning" team to even win anymore...
I might as well play the first 15 rounds on 1 team, and switch to the other one.... (which would be an exploit of the system to gain an item advantage),
but it would be better than having an immortal enemy that keeps reviving with cheap scrolls..

Again, scrolls should be capped at a 4k price minimum at most.

[What]

I second the cap on the price of a scroll, its the only item that seems to be unfairly benefited from a lower price.

[Erdenay]

That's what I've said as soon as this idea got out... However, Zero has a different idea of balance (or so I've understood) and if it the end of the round the score is 16-16, it's balanced, if it was 16 wins a row for one of the teams... I'd rather not see that, but oh well...

[CYBER]

That's what I've said as soon as this idea got out... However, Zero has a different idea of balance (or so I've understood) and if it the end of the round the score is 16-16, it's balanced, if it was 16 wins a row for one of the teams... I'd rather not see that, but oh well...

No. This could be just my opinion, but having one team go 15-0 straight, and then the other team going 0-15 to tie up the game at 15-15 is NOT a balanced game...

It's just a balance swivel, from team stacking of team A to item stacking of team B.
For the people on the loosing team, this SEEMS like an unstacking solution in the heat of the moment, fine.

But overall, looking at an entire game, the system did not help BALANCE teams, NO. It helped SHIFT the balance 100% from team A to team B.
Ever since the system was implemented, I've yet to see a game truely go head to head between teams. It's always a rampage from Team A, followed by a counter rampaged from team B.

It feels like "winning a game" with your team is no longer a goal in the game if it will always end up with this tied scenario, and it's actually encouraging people to have their team get raped originally (by "accidentally" letting the bomb explode or smthn) in order to get the item discounts, making them whore more items and get a higher kdr ...

but wtvr, I mentionned the ONLY solution that will EVER get wcs balanced, and it's the !scramble idea.
I know you might not like this idea zero because you might have the mentality that no-one should be forced to play on a team they didn't want to...
But that's the only solution for a pure balanced game...

Anyway, i digress, but if you guys STILL insist on this system, which is only a temp solution in my books, then at least cap the scrolls.

I intentionally went as an itemless jack for 6 rounds yesterday against a stacked team that had respawners, i got my share of kills but we lost those rounds, and then 1 round, spawned as a crypt lord with a cheap ankh and ak.
And i told my friend to just HIDE somewhere.

Every time they killed me, i scrolled back, about 7 times in a row, and hit the locust swarm and randomly sacrifice myself (guns blazing) until the other team (who respawned) got their health slowly depleated before the end of the round. We won the round, fine, but was it balanced? was it an "achievement" ? no. I just whored the shit about scrolls... and i STILL had money to spare on lace health helm if i wanted to finish the round off with an op human... or molecule.

2k scrolls are OP, thats the main reason we increased their prices from 3.5 k to 7.5k in the first place!

As spasm horribly mentionned : I can just imagine people only playing magician, die, and continuously scroll back until they get their bird, especially if they got a respawner respawning ppl too... and the same goes for voids...

Again, Cap the scroll back at 4k.

[Spasm]

No. This could be just my opinion, but having one team go 15-0 straight, and then the other team going 0-15 to tie up the game at 15-15 is NOT a balanced game...

It's just a balance swivel, from team stacking of team A to item stacking of team B.
For the people on the loosing team, this SEEMS like an unstacking solution in the heat of the moment, fine.

But overall, looking at an entire game, the system did not help BALANCE teams, NO. It helped SHIFT the balance 100% from team A to team B.
Ever since the system was implemented, I've yet to see a game truely go head to head between teams. It's always a rampage from Team A, followed by a counter rampaged from team B.

It feels like "winning a game" with your team is no longer a goal in the game if it will always end up with this tied scenario, and it's actually encouraging people to have their team get raped originally (by "accidentally" letting the bomb explode or smthn) in order to get the item discounts, making them whore more items and get a higher kdr ...

but wtvr, I mentionned the ONLY solution that will EVER get wcs balanced, and it's the !scramble idea.
I know you might not like this idea zero because you might have the mentality that no-one should be forced to play on a team they didn't want to...
But that's the only solution for a pure balanced game...

Anyway, i digress, but if you guys STILL insist on this system, which is only a temp solution in my books, then at least cap the scrolls.

I intentionally went as an itemless jack for 6 rounds yesterday against a stacked team that had respawners, i got my share of kills but we lost those rounds, and then 1 round, spawned as a crypt lord with a cheap ankh and ak.
And i told my friend to just HIDE somewhere.

Every time they killed me, i scrolled back, about 7 times in a row, and hit the locust swarm and randomly sacrifice myself (guns blazing) until the other team (who respawned) got their health slowly depleated before the end of the round. We won the round, fine, but was it balanced? was it an "achievement" ? no. I just whored the shit about scrolls... and i STILL had money to spare on lace health helm if i wanted to finish the round off with an op human... or molecule.

2k scrolls are OP, thats the main reason we increased their prices from 3.5 k to 7.5k in the first place!

As spasm horribly mentionned : I can just imagine people only playing magician, die, and continuously scroll back until they get their bird, especially if they got a respawner respawning ppl too... and the same goes for voids...

Again, Cap the scroll back at 4k.

Agree with most of this except /scramble being the only way to balance teams, forced auto assign is another option. I don't really mind the scrolls honestly because old school WCS server they were 3500.

If this is the way we are going forward I still recommend a faster exchange on item sales so that when the other team does start winning, it doesn't let them keep the item advantage for long. Also a faster discount would even the teams a lot quicker then the slow 5%.