[ADD] cs_crackhouse_2013

[Goku]

Putting a halt to the map. Did some map testing and some adjustments need to be made.

Shooting through walls isn't vital if you have more access points to the house. People who like to camp rooftops with vaga or human can shoot through the walls all day and eventually get someone.
The adjustments even the playing field, you just have to view it from all races and both teams, not just what you want out of it.

Change is good, if you're willing to try it out.

I will repost it when it's fixed and I advise you to please TEST the map before you actually try to give feedback. Thanks.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------

Some areas were slightly widened. This reduces chance of killing yourself with spiderman or vagabond. Please read the last reply I just made as well.

[What]

Work on maps that are not played and/or broken to make them usable, leave the popular maps alone, like your stellar idea to redo italy to make it more flyer friendly, that was a real great idea which exhibited a complete lack of understanding of what a wcs map needs to have and what it needs to limit.
You want to make crackhouse better for vagas and spiderman, thats is completely idiotic and unnecessary. Anyone who can control those races have no issues with playing them on that map to extreme effectiveness. Stop trying to nerf skill and make the maps noob/idiot friendly.

---------- Post added at 06:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

I also just thought about your other comment, needing more points of access. The house already has 3 entry points anyone can reach, and 5 more for any flyer, teleporting, or low grav race, this clearly is not an issue. This can further be reinforced by actually playing the map and seeing how often people get inside and get the drop on the terrorists, and this includes shooting them through the floor. It may not have been envisioned to work the way it does, but the map is already quite balanced the way it is.

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

my mistake, I forgot the boxes near the lower windows, add at least 3 more points of entry that anyone can use. bringing up the total to a minimum of 6 and a maximum of 12, since one of the lower windows may require low grav to get into. But yeah, clearly needs more points of entry, hell why even have walls, and what if we make wide open spaces so vagas and spidys can move more freely, its about time someone gave those races a chance.

[Wolfenstinger]

Some areas were slightly widened. This reduces chance of killing yourself with spiderman or vagabond. Please read the last reply I just made as well.

Just putting it out there. If a spiderman/vagalion/vagabond doesn't know how to land by another means other than their face - that's on them. Not on you the map maker. On cs_crackhouse - I can think of approximately 8-10 spots on the map where, if properly aimed at for vagalion / vagabond, will reduce fall damage to little to nothing. Those spots are commonly used as well if the player knows what to look for. It's more or less up to them to figure the safe points, as they do exist on any given map, no matter how small or how big it may be.

[Erdenay]

It's more aesthetically pleasing that the other map, but a new crackhouse map is the last thing our server needs. It's quite possibly the very worst map on rotation that's actually played (Obviously there are some worse maps, but they're rarely played) and in general people tend to cause a ragefest in crackhouse/assault/dolls due to the imbalanced maps and stacking. Honestly, I'd just rather see crackhouse completely removed from rotation along with other maps such as Westwood, facility, etc.

[CYBER]

It's more aesthetically pleasing that the other map, but a new crackhouse map is the last thing our server needs. It's quite possibly the very worst map on rotation that's actually played (Obviously there are some worse maps, but they're rarely played) and in general people tend to cause a ragefest in crackhouse/assault/dolls due to the imbalanced maps and stacking. Honestly, I'd just rather see crackhouse completely removed from rotation along with other maps such as Westwood, facility, etc.

i agree that crackhouse is one of those maps that u either love or hate with passion.

i did test the map though, and gave chris some feedback (hence the halt).
Before, crackhouse could go 2 ways: either pure T sided on cs_ if you camp the inside and avoid windows (especially humans and molecule and nebulas and jacks), or dominate the outside with flyers and vagas , especially on Ct side, and especially on de_ version.

The way this is setup is that it allows walking races (Calling them Walkers from now on), to have access to the rooftops from a point , and to have more cover from those flyers. At the same time, Ts are protected from being shot through walls, yet at the same time, cts have more points of access to go in and out of the house. So what used to be a T sided map now became a bit more balanced when i tested the map with low gravity ( 450 for jumpers and flamepreds, and 20 gravity for flyers, and noclip for vagas) and in fact, the new map might bring some new tactics to the game, especially for CTs who no longer have to go pure humans or nebulas just to survive outside and go in the house undetected. Hell even crypt lord and eye raes will be played better on this...

again, if someone hates crackhouse, they might threat that map because they are biased from prior impressions of the old crappy one, and those -like me- who dnt mind crackhouse, can find new ways of playing it without whoring races.

all i can say is give it a try it doesn't hurt to have a couple more maps we can alternate and test out ... max people like me get bored easily of the same maps being played over and over again because you establish 1 good strategy and just whore it out...

but maybe we can change tactics or learn new ones with this new version...
besides... Chris is doing those maps for free and exclusively building them with IBIS wcs in mind... the least we can offer is to test out the map and play them and provide good criticism and feedback.

If it doesnt work out down the road, im sure he himself would request to be removed or upgraded or fixed. am i right?

[What]

He is building them for WCS with the worst idea of WCS should be in mind, thats the problem.

Also, Any race can already get on the roof, you just boost from the ladder at the back window, not everything needs to be spoonfed to players.

[Goku]

You know how you fly way outside the map and can get caught underneath the buildings? Also notice the random invisible blocks in the sky near the rooftops? Yeah. That's all gone. I've fixed the map as per the suggestions made after some people tested it. (thanks, btw, I appreciate it!)

I know you have your arguments but the current crackhouse maps are so terrible and they just need to go. I'm not saying this is top priority. Saying something like "the last thing this server needs is..." is a bit silly to say since, um, this is a thread designed to suggest new maps. I don't see anyone else actually mapping specifically for the mod, do you? If so, have them chat with me about their ideas, because I'll listen.

What the server needs right now are some maps that cater to wcs more specifically, because we can have a lot more fun with it. If you say "nay", then that's fine but naysayers tend not to be the creative ones, either. After all, there is also a REMOVE thread. I've seen some pretty crappy maps uploaded and removed, so I really don't see what the issue is with this one. If you personally don't like me, fine, but at least hate me HONESTLY and don't try to tell me my maps are bad. It's not just visually better, it's functionally better.

I am working on several maps in my spare time because I've played enough to understand the issues with regular maps concerning the races and I CARE enough to want to keep gameplay a bit fresh and interesting.

Now that it's been fixed up and uploaded again I suggest please considering how the races function and take a trip around the map. If you have suggestions I will take them but please, the feedback could be a bit less whiny and a bit more constructive from some of you. <3

---------- Post added at 05:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 AM ----------

P.S. What -- your argument is invalid unless you can come up with an argument that includes integrity. Creative suggestions and some balanced reasons would help. You're basically throwing your opinion out there and acting as though it's common law. Please keep in mind your opinion is solely yours, is merely an opinion as is mine and I'll take it as such. Besides, you're a bit of a Negative Nancy and you are leaning toward wanting to keep it easy to dominate by simply race whoring. I'm actually looking to make it more fun for everyone, not just you. Thank you for the feedback, though. If you give me something to work with perhaps I can make some adjustments.

[What]

No i dont get stuck under the buildings cause I'm not a moron.

Also Chris, here is the last thing I'm going to say to you, work on maps that are broken and people complain about, not ones you dont like. Maps like Atlantis, Facility, IBIS cell, Battleship, Inferno pro and Inferno Fog just to name a few.

Again you want specific WCS maps, but your idea of what that is, is awful. You want to make everymap you have made into something that will make it easier for vagas, spidys, and flyers, this is a complete non-issue and will only raise the bitchyness level.

Crackhouse has to go? I guess thats why people vote for a dozen times a day, they must really hate it huh?

Maps should not be designed to make it easier for lazy people or shitty players to play races, thats stupid. As I've said before, if people want it added to the server, who cares there is enough shit out there already, and you can watch and be amazed when people don't want to play it or only play it so they can get more crackhouse in after the cs and de versions have been played and can be nominated again. Your ideas are stupid, and your arrogance about how you know what WCS should be is hilarious considering how shitty you are the game. Seems to me like your just trying to make maps that suit your crappy play style so you can try and keep up with people who have skill.

PS. you are kind of awful at this, again complaining about the snow on nipperhouse? I have never, ever heard anyone else say that. Listen to what people want, not what you think is best, cause its kind of terrible.

[Goku]

The original crackhouse has to go, yes. Shooting through walls is kinda a mistake in design. A happy accident for people who like to cheat, anyway. I hope you don't think you're actually any good at the game for winning on a map like that... lol.

I don't think you're paying much attention to much other than ONLY what you're saying anyway, so I'm not really going to worry about it. It's not like you'll have the final word, What.

You just don't want the playing field evened out and that's fine. You don't like the idea of change. That's fine. I don't care. This whole thing isn't just for you. Your opinion is only yours (as in not always the popular one), so you'd do well to remember that. People are score whores and don't care about the map designs much, so they really shouldn't have a place in these map comments. I'm actually one of the better mappers if you take the time to comb through all the maps that are actually popular. You wouldn't really know, though.

Yes, the snowbanks on nipperhouse stop you from walking. I've heard plenty of complaints, but again you probably don't listen to other people very much since you're such a fan of your own voice.

I also do pretty well when I'm in practice, but that's not what this is about. This is about you still not having a point other than "I don't wanna..." and sounding like a pretty poor judge of things. Negativity will get you negativity, so have fun with that. Thanks to everyone else for actually giving some constructive feedback. Also: as it's been said... try new things. It can be removed if it doesn't work out.

Cheers.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

Lastly (I hope you understand that means I'm not going to reply to you anymore)... Thanks for mentioning those other maps. I will decompile them and take a look at them while I have the time.

[What]

I have debunked every reason you have given as to why crackhouse needs to be redone. And I help people learn the mod and play the races way more than you have ever done. Instead of just saying, yeah those races suck or something like that and then trying to make a map to help them in their current age of ignorance, I tell them what to do or not to do, and where to put skill points when leveling. No one has every said anything about the snow on nipper house, and tell me two other people who mentioned that to you. You don't play that often and no one ever talks to you directly since pretty much everyone is in agreement that you're kind of a whiny prick when you play.

Shooting through walls is as old as time, and is in the game, like on italy or office, stock maps, its not a flaw and important for balance on a map like crackhouse. Until you have better reasons other than you don't like it and want to make it easier for vagas and spideys, you shouldn't be trying to make maps.

You're not helping them, you're hurting them.