Huge ass list of balance suggestions

[Wolfenstinger]

I'm poking at kionay's weird as fuck post just so I can make sense of it and state things that I don't like that he sees. Maybe it can change his view, IDK.

vagas as a race are fine as is, you can use eye ra to see them instead of buying something, some of the less appreciated (or harder to use) races might be encouraged to get an ability to see vagas like ra does to have an insentive to play them?

Vaga is broke as fuck. Play Rapscallion. Rapscallion is better than Vagalion, let alone Vagabond. It's like playing a Flame Predator on Steroids! (Steroids not included). But no there is some things that I already pointed out for Vaga, as far as levitation goes at least. I also still believe Vagabond is faster than Vagalion slightly because of it, but I don't know. The Levitation and Adrenaline difference do matter when you are looking for them on the live server! Even if the race is utilizing ALMOST the same code to teleport around, Vagalions aren't going to be as random as a Vagabond can be, BUT a Vagalion can teleport more often than a Vagabond could ever teleport. Because of this, I don't really care at what the Levitation and Adrenaline is set at, due to the fact everyone who plays either race adapted and are used to these values already. Changing the values WILL mess with everyone who plays either Vagalion or Vagabond.

magician restrictions i think is a bad idea, the magician only needs to die once to lose those, bird is a magician's bread and butter really

I do want to state here - Magician USED to be able to use any weapon, but would always spawn the next round with a Pump Shotty / Dualies. Might've been a bug, I don't know. I just remember leveling it back then with an M4 or a compact because I didn't like the Pump Shotty or Dualies. Now I think it's weapon kit has grown on me a bit for its skill set and to just take time on the shots rather than spraying. The Dualies are for spraying.

Levitation - as annoying as it is when it procs for the shooter and the one being shot at, it really does its part for the Magician as he could technically just be a complete tease to his enemies. Also because of the use of a Pump Shotty; being allowed that pause gives time to react to the Levitation if it procs

Crow - Cloak is stupid. Ring and Health is fine.

weblines: MAYBE 1 second, if that
evade is pretty intense, but it's the spidey's most adventageous ability (arguable i suppose)

Ok, after reading this, I realized you put the ultimate critique first, then the ability. So...... I'm doing the complete opposite because it bothers me.

Agility - Spidey's Bread n Butter. If you can bhop or even at least chain jumps, you're getting away. Evade just ENSUREs that you won't fall over and die right away. I'm not gonna lie, Evade is annoying, but its Evade. And he's Spider-man.

Web Lines - .5 sec CD like Vagabond or let us do 2 shots (a V shot like he does in the movies) with +ability or +ability1. It'd be interesting maneuvering mechanics for Spider-man

when you say "god i hate {RACE}'s {RACE_ABILITY}!" then something done right (most of the time)
each ability that makes each race a little bit OP should be able to be countered with gamesense or aim, for example just earlier today gunslinger and i were going at it, he was a vagabond i was night elf, his lack of aim, my evasion, and my aim let me win more than half the time against him

he could've killed me with just a little better aim or movement, i could've killed him more with better aim or by buying a lace (which i did later), our engagements were genuinly fun and challenging and, in my opinion, an amazing example of what engagements should be like between any given two races

flavorfull and fun, with a little bit of swaty-palm intensity that you get playing a really hard level of a video game (analogies yaaaaay)

Evade Proc = Luck of the draw. Meaning they aren't a TERRIBLE shot if they hit you, but at the same time, they still hit you. They just didn't hit you.

Now about buying laces. Personally kills MY fun in finding any vagas unless they are people like Cyber, Hypanova(Predator), Ronnie, etc...? (I don't know all the well known ones off the top of my head. I know a few old ones though! ) But its more along when you get the lace rather when you already have it. The problem with already having it is that ALL vaga players will play as if you don't have one already (round 1). By round 2, they play semi-cautiously, but not TOO cautiously because you still don't have a lace. By round 3 - we either repeat round 2 because you don't have the money OR we change our methods slightly, adjusting for laces.

Quick-bind your lace to a convenient key (like on your mouse), bait the vaga into coming into close quarters with you, click the button. If it doesn't work, you either have bad positioning and can't figure out where the vaga you are fighting is, or I just make this sound easier said then done because I try to do stupid crazy things like around the corner knifing while you have a lace. I don't know.


TL;DR - I wanted to poke at kionay's post. Poke poke.

[kionay]

Vaga is broke as fuck. Play Rapscallion. Rapscallion is better than Vagalion, let alone Vagabond. It's like playing a Flame Predator on Steroids! (Steroids not included). But no there is some things that I already pointed out for Vaga, as far as levitation goes at least. I also still believe Vagabond is faster than Vagalion slightly because of it, but I don't know. The Levitation and Adrenaline difference do matter when you are looking for them on the live server! Even if the race is utilizing ALMOST the same code to teleport around, Vagalions aren't going to be as random as a Vagabond can be, BUT a Vagalion can teleport more often than a Vagabond could ever teleport. Because of this, I don't really care at what the Levitation and Adrenaline is set at, due to the fact everyone who plays either race adapted and are used to these values already. Changing the values WILL mess with everyone who plays either Vagalion or Vagabond.

you're wolf, bar none the best vagalion player i have ever seen in my ~6 months on the server, of course you'd say vaga is OP, a knife race in your hands is OP, gunslinger (not OP but still good XD ) was fun to play against, playing against you as vaga is almost certain death :P

Crow - Cloak is stupid. Ring and Health is fine.

killing crow without cloak is incredibly easy, i mean crow IS supposed to be an 'ULTIMATE' ability, seeing a crow without a cloak is like screaming "HERE I AM, SHOOT ME!"
but i can see why this could be arguable :-/

Agility - Spidey's Bread n Butter. If you can bhop or even at least chain jumps, you're getting away. Evade just ENSUREs that you won't fall over and die right away. I'm not gonna lie, Evade is annoying, but its Evade. And he's Spider-man.

Web Lines - .5 sec CD like Vagabond or let us do 2 shots (a V shot like he does in the movies) with +ability or +ability1. It'd be interesting maneuvering mechanics for Spider-man

I can't bhop for shit, i get like 2, MAYBE 3 hops in, evade is all i have for survivability (because i'm bad with weblines too, which is why you won't see me play spidey anytime soon) and i have seen some of the craziest evade chains on spidey, tanking full P90 clips point blank

as for the cooldown i'm not sure what 'a V shot like he does in the movies' means? but the .5 to 1 second cooldowns i think is a very good idea, the ability for spidey to get to the enemy spawn before the enemy team can get OUT of spawn is pretty crazy, not to say that spidey should be significantly slower, but ffs let them leave spawn first, let there be a beginning of round cooldown or something

... aren't a TERRIBLE shot if they hit you, but at the same time, they still hit you. They just didn't hit you.

this made me chuckle

Now about buying laces. Personally kills MY fun in finding any vagas unless they are people like Cyber, Hypanova(Predator), Ronnie, etc...? (I don't know all the well known ones off the top of my head.

you can have FUN finding vagas because you're... well good :P

for myself (and according to the complaints i hear from time-to-time in-game) a vaga swimming around you is one of the most annoying and stressfull things in the game, ESPECIALLY when playing against a vaga immune to laces (read 'wolfenstinger')

when a vaga is around me i cannot predict their movements (90% of the time, mostly because i'm so bad at the game) so buying a lace is the only defense i have against them, otherwise i usually wait for them to kill me, one of my better teammates to kill them, the round to end, or one of their teammates to find us and kill me


being bad at the game doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to have fun(otherwise why am I here?), and a vaga death sentence is not fun

TL;DR - I wanted to poke at kionay's post. Poke poke.

pokin' me eh? STAHP! XD

[What]

The spidey web lines, like the vaga teleport of jack bhop, can be very good and allow people to travel very quickly, but it takes a level of skill to do this. Spidy's can still crash into walls and corners if the dont know what they are doing and they need to know where to aim the web in order to travel the most efficiently. Also, few of the people who play spidey are actually good at killing while zipping around, most come into the area, stop, fire some shots, and then shoot away, providing a good window to kill them.

The problem a lot of people have is that they see how good the top 1% is with a certain race, so they want the race nerfed in some way, yet when they unlock the race or try to play it, they usually blow. Thats not a race thing, thats a skill thing. Vagabond is really the case in point with this, noobs kill themselves all the time with it and those that dont usually take too long decloaked to shoot making themselves easy targets. Any race can seem op if the person using it is good and knows how to use it to the best advantage.

[CYBER]

The problem a lot of people have is that they see how good the top 1% is with a certain race, so they want the race nerfed in some way, yet when they unlock the race or try to play it, they usually blow. Thats not a race thing, thats a skill thing. Vagabond is really the case in point with this, noobs kill themselves all the time with it and those that dont usually take too long decloaked to shoot making themselves easy targets. Any race can seem op if the person using it is good and knows how to use it to the best advantage.

This. Another case is strider. For as long as I remember, strider was the second crappies race in the game after rapscallion, and I have never someone play the race beyond leveling it. and until deez figured out an original way to abuse the race, now people are crying about it.

I cannot stress how many players bitch about the invisible vaga, and claim that once they unlock the race they gonna be op. And when they unlock it, they see the difficulty in leveling all 50 levels, and then notice their negative kdr on the race for weeks and months...

[Masskid]

Server
Unrestrict Awp/Autos or restrict P90 as well.
I’m ok with 1 Auto per team, P90 2 per team

All races
200-250 HP hard cap
250hp hard cap sounds good

Shopmenu
Mask: Broken, fix or remove.
increase proc rate, proc %, max health cap
Boots: Increase bonus speed by 0.1-0.15
Add: Longjump item Cost 3500-4500
Add but higher cost
Add: Dust of apperance; colors enemy model some color for 3-6 seconds when hit. Should be made to work against bond, lion, rapscallion and any partial invis race
Yes

Undead
Vampiric Aura: Remove tracing visual
Vampiric Aura: Decrease leech amount by 15% at max, increase leech chance by 5% at max
With the hard cap i think everything on here should be fine

Human
Stormwind Cloak: Decrease invis percentage by 10-15% at max level
Fine where it’s at
Bash: Remove visual
It’s Fine
Bash: [This one will actually pertain to and be referenced by other skills later on that use the same method of stopping player movement] Remove 100% slow(This is an extremely poor way to handle assuring players are frozen due to how slows affect aim and recoil). Replace with a try/catch similar to lace that will detect if player is using a jetpack like ability or if the player is currently bashed or affected by another movement stopping skill. It will stop the ability for the duration of the bash, freeze them, then unfreeze and enable the skill again.
http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/5424-004-Night-Elf-0-v1-0-7?p=174532#post174532
Shopmenu: Restrict Orb of Frost and Periapt of health.
I think its fine for it to have those items


Orcish Horde
Critical Strike: Remove tracing visual
It’s fine with them on
Critical Strike: Decrease critical strength by 15-25%, increase chance by 5-8% at max levels
Respawn: Decrease god mode time by half
God time makes things a bit awkward

Night Elf
Evasion: Remove tracing visual
Trueshot Aura: Remove tracing visual
Thorns: Remove tracing visual
Visuals Fine
Entangling Roots: See bash
http://www.ibisgaming.com/forums/showthread.php/5424-004-Night-Elf-0-v1-0-7?p=174532#post174532
Entangling Roots: Decrease entangled time by 2-3 seconds at max level; decrease cooldown by 25%
Shopmenu: Restrict Helm of Excellence
Don't think any race with evade should be allowed a Helm

Blood Mage
Banish: Rework this totally. Current banish is a concept failure as it alters the location of the crosshair making it 100% luck based kills while under its effects. The old reverse zoom was hugely effective.
They have been trying to fix it with no success
Flame Strike: Reduce burn time by half; Decrease cooldown by 30%
Burn time maybe by a few seconds but not by half, cooldown imo is fine

Shadow Hunter
Hex: Extremely underpowered. Only current value is attacking molecule through it's ultimate at a very rare chance. Perhaps a 1-5% chance ability to cause enemies to reload their weapon on attack.
I don’t even have a clue what hex does

Warden
Shadow strike: Double the slow and damage
Vengeance: Add a 5-25% chance to go into a Vengeance frenzy upon respawn gaining 10-30 HP and an addtional 4-12 damage on attack.

Crypt Lord
Locust Swarm: Do not allow use if player cannot gain any HP from use
Don’t like this Change
Locust Swarm: Add a range 1.5 times the size of Orcish Horde chain lighting
Locust Swarm: Change to passive with a 1-5% chance to inflict 10-30 damage and 15-35 armor damage on attack
maybe instead of global reduce side, but a lot bigger then orcs

Archmage
Earthquake: Decrease shake by a magnitude of 2
Weapons of the Archmage: Add a menu asking if you want to receive the weapons when it procs
This could fuck you up with a bloodmage respawn just like Chameleons Ability Menu

Flame Predator
Claw Attack: Change from a weapon drop to forcing the player to pull out their knife
Burning Blade: Decrease burn time by 0.5-1 seconds

Molecule
Speed: Decrease by 0.5-0.1 at max level
Evade: Decrease by 5% at max level
Force Field: Make it a clone of Shadow Hunters Voodoo
Force Field: Change to doubling evade for 2-6 seconds remove freeze and 100% slow
Restrict the god damn helm

Genocide
Regeneration: Change to a gain of 10-24(2 per level) HP per kill and 5% speed per kills.

Spider Man
Spidey Sense: drop max chance to 25% evade
Agility: Max LJ 140-150% drop speed by 10% at max
Web Shooter: See Bash.
See Bash Note
Web Shooter: 25% chance at max
Weblines: Add a 2-3 second cooldown. Have a longer cooldown at earlier levels.
that cool down is too high, Honestly i kinda like wolf’s idea of having 2 webs and being able to swing type movement
Restrict p90

Succubus Hunter
DTransformation: Add 10-25% speed when used

Panorama
Wall Climb: Check to make sure values are the same as what the skill info says.
Flip view: Cut time flipped by half
Keep it the same
Rematch: Set a limit to rematches; 2 maybe 3
NO NO AWWW HELL NO, while you’re at it why not just take the fun out the game >

Vagabond
Half the total levels of the race change new skill maxes to be 75-80% of current maxes
Flickering Shadows: Remove and deduct the levels from the total level of the race
Levitation: Change values to .8-.4 of normal.
Complete Invisibility:[Will also apply to Vagalion] Add a 3 second cooldown to all levels
Complete Invisibility:[Will also apply to Vagalion] Add a delay to when the player becomes invisible making it in flight rather than before
Complete Invisibility:[Will also apply to Vagalion] Add a trail for 0.25 seconds after initial use
Complete Invisibility:[Will also apply to Vagalion] Half the time after use that the player is frozen
Shopmenu: Restrict Periapt of Heath
just not gonna read this one, i dont care about bond or lion much. Wolfie will say everything

Strider Hiryu
(Remove the race; I'm serious with this )
Flying Dragon: Decrease speed to a maximum of 1.7; 1.6 preferred
Flying Dragon: Add a 25-10 second cooldown after releasing the ability1 key
Kayakujutsu: Decrease burn time by half
Kayakujutsu: Remove burn time, replace with a 10% slow for the current burn time
Portal: Add a 30-15 second cooldown
Shopmenu: Restrict Cloak
Remove knife while flying. That or add knife to dragonfly and remove the knife from strider(Fuck you strider)

Raiden
Thunder God: Change ability into a speed ability 1.25-1.35 max
Thunder God: Change ability to a ward ability; 1 ward, 20-25 damage every 1.5-2 seconds at max level
Raiden's Wrath: Change to a passive 0.5-4% chance to strike an enemy with lighting instantly killing them or dealing heavy damage; 70-150
Dont care

Hell Hunter
Fire arrows: Remove burn and double the damage over time
Fire grenades: Increase the area of effect by 1.5
Still dont care

Chameleon
Bash: See Human Bash
Entangle: See Human Bash

Hell's Demon
Restrict: Shotguns and P90

Magician
Shopmenu: Restrict Ring or Clock
Ring is fine

Shadow of the Void
Deaths Shadow: Double the damage
Vision of the Void: Double the duration of the blind
Vision of the Void: Increase max chance to 30%

Eye Ra
Lens of Truth: Fix?
Summon: Add a range 3-4 times that of Orcs chainlightning( ~150 feet)

Nebula
Proto Star: Reduce max chance to 35%
Nebula: Reduce invis time to 3-3.5 seconds

Die Xonvert
Blood Lust: Change to 15% chance to do 10-25 damage and gain it yourself
Freeze by Fear: See Human Bash

Beast
Burning Beast: Change ability into "Raging Beast" 5-10% chance when hit to give full ammo and 10-15 HP

Rapscallion
Blades: Switch with Vagalion's Blades
Complete Invisibility: Remove cooldown
Complete Invisibility: Remove current animation and replace with Vagalion ultimate visual.
Revert Blades back to previous where each blades had a chance to proc on each other, but at the same time restrict Claw(side note, When i asked zero, during development, he told me that the skill procing on each other was intentional. So I'm not sure why he removed it)

Athena
Medusa's gaze: Triple the cooldown
maybe 1.5 it
Medusa's gaze: Remove the tracing visual
Medusa's gaze: See Human Bash
Medusa's gaze: Half the freeze time
Medusa's gaze: Decrease range by 25%
Shopmenu: Unrestrict Lace
make the range of the skill lace multiply by 1.5 when paired with lace

Dragon Fly
Blood Loss: Double the damage and increase the proc chance by 10% at max
Shopmenu: Restrict Ahnk[Needs to also be made so that one can't get the weapon, die, changerace then buy ahnk. Perhaps making Dragon Fly changerace only when you next spawn]
Give it a knife while flying

Jack
-Will do when I'm next on the server can't remember skill names-
reduce proc on each skill along with not allowing them to proc on each other

Vagalion
Flickering shadows: Remove and deduct levels from race's total level
Blades: Switch with Rapscallions Blades
Levitation: Change values to 0.8-0.4 of normal
Complete Invisibility: See Vagabond
Wolfie got this

[What]

First off, the p90 needs to be available to everyone. Its the go to gun for people who need a fighting shot and when you can't afford a rifle.

Second, how could you possibly limit items per team when you have races that can spawn guns and abilities that let you keep your weapons after your death?

[Masskid]

First off, the p90 needs to be available to everyone. Its the go to gun for people who need a fighting shot and when you can't afford a rifle.

Let me fix this for you

First off, the P90 needs to go fuck itself. Its the go to gun for people who don't fucking feel like learning to aim/have no skill

[Wolfenstinger]

Whatever happened to MP5 Kevlar? Or that's not a thing on WCS? I mean... its still Counter-Strike.

[What]

Let me fix this for you

First off, the P90 needs to go fuck itself. Its the go to gun for people who don't fucking feel like learning to aim/have no skill

Again, it seems that the issue with the p90 is that it is a weapon that gets a lot of the better, lets call them finesse, players killed. Limiting items, abilities, or guns because it causes frustration for not being able to run around indiscriminately killing everyone is not going to balance anything, it will unbalance the shit out of it.

[Pie Q]

Brice is $100 correct about removing Strider. The class just slows down the game and doesn't provide anything fun for opposing players. Lace should at least disable flying. This would effectively restrict strider to a flanking race.

For the rest of the suggestions, A+ list would read again.