Huge ass list of balance suggestions

[Masskid]

Brice is $100 correct about removing Strider. The class just slows down the game and doesn't provide anything fun for opposing players. Lace should at least disable flying. This would effectively restrict strider to a flanking race.

For the rest of the suggestions, A+ list would read again.

wtf is $100 correct?

[Wolfenstinger]

It was his first post... and you had to point out his biggest flaw in it.

Leave the poor pie alone!

[What]

Pie Q? More like Pie Ewwww!

[Pie Q]

I'm going to return to my original ( silly lel) statement and try to make sense of what brice wants to accomplish.


To be honest, there is a fundamental balance issue here within WCS and it doesn't just involve specific races. WCS, at its core, punishes good aim, good movement and gamesense while rewarding
Spraying and fast, imprecise movement.
I feel as though the headshot is an intrinsic part of balance inside of Counter Strike.
Players toil endlessly away in DM servers, in bot maps, in Scrims and Pubs trying to hone their movement and aim so they can succesfully land a headshot.
The headshot separates the bad from the ok, the ok from the good, and the good from the great. Punishing a player for simply being good is a travesty. With that in mind ,I feel if we balance WCS around the headshot we will be in much better shape!

It should never be negated, evaded, or resisted. It should be rewarded

General Proposed Changes

Health capped at 175
Perapit of health adds +25 health
Helmet removed ( pants wet as we speak)
Evade no longer works against headshot ("A+ suggestion" - Times Magazine)

These changes will make a WORLD of difference. Rewarding skill allows good players to stand against some of the faster (OP races) races.


Human
125 starting health
Bash works similiar to recoil. Every shot Increases the cooldown for another "bash" shot. if you spray, none of your shots will bash.


Molecule and shadow hunter(?)
-When bubbled, can only go for headshots
-Bodyshots remove .3 seconds of bubble

Same for the other bullshit race I can't remember because I'm tired. It turns invincible too


Undead and other speedy races
-Decrease InnacuracyMove and Increase Recoilmagnitude ( Less accuracy while moving and a larger spray pattern while standing)
+10% headshot damage. If you can headshot an undead, you deserve to kill them ( with m4 or ak, they could still survive a headshot if they have 175 health)

Makes it more difficult for the undead and other races to simply spam the directional keys and still get hits

( for an empircal reason for this approach I'd like to remind you that in CSGO the accel value/innacuracyMove was only slightly higher than it was now and it allowed people to ADADADA with ASSAULT RIFLES and get kills. It's silly)


Fagabonds and Fagalions
-Has only a slightly increased movement speed while not Using Ultimate (OH NOOOO I HAVE TO BE VULNERABLE SOMETIMES?)
-Get rid of the vagabond Crit. Just...HE CAN FLY AND BE AT ANY POSITION HE WANTS AND HE HAS AN AWP.

JUST MAKE IT SO WHOEVER HE SHOOTS HAS TO DO A HANDSTAND OR SOME SHIT I DUNNO


AWP makes you walk Slow for a reason.


Succubus Hunter
Max health Applies
5 health per skull
Max 15 skulls
Give it Jack's bunnyhop. Jack gets succubus's bunny hop

Ak vs m4

The M4/AK is balanced around the team's respective playstyle. The T's are usually pushing. The AK thus excels at close range engagement with its high damage, lower accuracy and 100 damage headshots.
The m4 excels in the opposite way, very accurate and silent, favoring sneaky and defensive plays from a distance. As it stands the M4 is much more preferrable to the AK because many classes have over 100 health, to balance this
Give the AK a headshot damage of 125, allowing a single headshot kill on humans without extra health.


Mrs. Treehoe

She's a slut. $15 a blowie is still pretty cheap tho ( look her up)


p90 vs AWP

-Almost complete opposties. AWPing is a defense, stationary role while the P90 is a close range, rushing SMG. The AWP should be restricted to the CTs and the P90 to the ts.

Ankh doesn't works with AWP or m249 because THE ECONOMY IN COUNTER STRIKE IS IMPORTANT YOU FUCKS

Fuck hostage maps they're bullshit. Why the fuck can vagas rescue the hostages you morons?


I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for trying to make WCS require a modicum of skill. The butthurt squad will come rushing in once they realize these changes would negate 90% of their playstyles.

I don't know why I'm even suggesting this since WCS is dead anyway. Take this advice and form WCGO around them and you might maintain a community of more than 100 people.

[CYBER]

the ONLY ONLY ONLY thing that even remotely didn't make me want to strangle you in your sleep pie,
was your suggestion to swap the bhops...


As I currently see it?
Spiderman should have Succubus's current bhop.
Jack should have spiderman's current bhop, maybe with like a 5% distance reduction.
And Succubus should GO BACK TO ITS FUCKING GLORY DAYS of the jack-like bhop with higher/longer jumps...


I really miss when succubus hunter was the go to "pro" race, rewarded for getting kills, rewarded for being the best.
But the race is underwhelming now, underrated for sure and still packs a punch, but not as good as it once was...

I'm willing to suggest adding that jack-like + high/distance jump to succubus that it used to have before, and in exchance, tweak it so it's no longer a "just keep getting 1 kill every now and then and wait for its late game..." or as i2o4 used to play it "I'ma stay on this race when there isnt many people in the server so that when people join, i'd have max skulls all game".

I strongly think that this movement buff suggestion can be compensated by making it so that you lose skulls at a round-rate. The more skulls is you have, the faster u lose them.
For example, start out with losing a skull once per 5 rounds, then at 10 skulls you lose one skull per 3 rounds, at 20 skulls you lose once skull per 2 rounds, and at max skulls, you will lose a skull once a round,

i.e you can't stay maxed forever unless you keep your killing streak...instead of the currently INSANELY SLOW pace that this race has compared to all other races.
The fact is, this race is NOT USED as a KNIFING race, although its kit suggest otherwise... and the problem is MAINLY its movement... perhaps with a loooooongjump buff, it can be used more with a knife assassinating people, than as a camping TANK gun race.

ima go post this on the succubus thread too... see what ppl think

[kionay]

It should never be negated, evaded, or resisted. It should be rewarded

i don't know about NEVER, CS:S needs to be skill based, absolutely, but if we don't make it moderately capable for new players to join then we will stagnate and die without new, fresh blood
making it more difficult for new players to stay alive (helm) would only encourage people to not play on the server
ya you can say they should get good then come here, but since CS:S is slowly going dieing then if we don't get all the people we can (new or experienced) the server will die faster still

General Proposed Changes
Evade no longer works against headshot

this just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a race, the race is at it's core supposed to be hard to hit, except it's head? does every other part of it's body move at quantum speeds allowing bullets to occassionally pass through it? evade working on every part makes fine sense, and if other aspects are implemented to reward headshots then this doesn't need to be one of them

Human
125 starting health
Bash works similiar to recoil. Every shot Increases the cooldown for another "bash" shot. if you spray, none of your shots will bash.

125 starting health? for a maxed race an extra 25 is a drop in the bucket and not worth much
a maxed human needs to be more powerful than this (though, arguably, less powerful than they are now?)

Molecule and shadow hunter(?)
-Bodyshots remove .3 seconds of bubble

shooting a bubbled person with a gun that happens to shoot quickly would decimate it, this works fine if everyone uses pistols, but with sub machine guns the bubble might damn near not as well be there

Undead and other speedy races
-Decrease InnacuracyMove and Increase Recoilmagnitude ( Less accuracy while moving and a larger spray pattern while standing)
+10% headshot damage. If you can headshot an undead, you deserve to kill them ( with m4 or ak, they could still survive a headshot if they have 175 health)

Makes it more difficult for the undead and other races to simply spam the directional keys and still get hits

so you want to encourage them to stand still, and make it easier to kill them when they do what they're now supposed to do (stand still/move less) ?
the speedy races make for a chaotic and inherently fun environment (when the teams aren't stacked >.> ) but with this implementation the matches would be people turning a corner, sitting still in a momentary deathmatch to see who headshots the other first, this may make it more skill-based, but it makes it less fun, even for better players
and after all, we're not competing, this is a video game, and this mod is supposed to be FUN at it's core

FFFUUUNNNN

Fagabonds and Fagalions
-Has only a slightly increased movement speed while not Using Ultimate (OH NOOOO I HAVE TO BE VULNERABLE SOMETIMES?)
-Get rid of the vagabond Crit. Just...HE CAN FLY AND BE AT ANY POSITION HE WANTS AND HE HAS AN AWP.

maybe reduce the crit, or only crit on a headshot, but not remove it, it's the vaga's bread and butter the extra damage (though maybe set them on fire, that could be entertaining and annoying, hehehe) and the vaga speed is fine, they're plenty vulnerable if you have a lace or a race that effectively has a lace

Ak vs m4

The M4/AK is balanced around the team's respective playstyle. The T's are usually pushing. The AK thus excels at close range engagement with its high damage, lower accuracy and 100 damage headshots.
The m4 excels in the opposite way, very accurate and silent, favoring sneaky and defensive plays from a distance. As it stands the M4 is much more preferrable to the AK because many classes have over 100 health, to balance this
Give the AK a headshot damage of 125, allowing a single headshot kill on humans without extra health.

this team restriction doesn't work for hostage rescue, when the Ts camp, or if a CT wants to play jack (less they get an M4 now instead)
this may make some sense, but some races will go against the inherent playstyle of T or CT on a given map
just because a CT is spidey doesn't mean they should camp, or be punished with a weapon restriction just because of their team
this will lead to more "i want to play X race so someone let me on the other team" or people stacking teams with another justification being the race they wanna play or level



some of these would work in theory for vanilla CS:S and it's wane towards a less fun, more strict kill-or-be-killed playstyle, it's more serious, it's more strategical

but this is WCS, we mod it to be more fun, not to be more L33T, it's supposed to be crazy, and hectic, and chaotic with people running at super speeds or teleporting about or flying as fucking SANTA CLAUS

the classes may need more balancing, but making the game less fun is a horrible way to balance them, if you're going to reward headshots, do so in a fun way, make it so that headshots haev a 10% to light someone on fire or something for a class that needs to be more powerful

or (if possible) give someone a bigger head (and hitbox) if they need to be nerfed for headshots, this keeps the game silly, but is a reasonable adaptation to playstyle

i don't play vanilla because i don't like the bland taste, i prefer superman or rocky road (fuck my sweet tooth is getting to me)

[CYBER]

Its ok pie to complain about evades and helms and bubbles fucking up your impeccable and skillful headbanging accuracy.

Or at least, that's what I understood from you butchering basically everything that would put a wedge on ur own play style.

But hang in there bud, I'm sure an update will be available to download real fucking soon, and then your aim will be alright again!

[Wolfenstinger]

I think the reason why Succubus Hunter's Bhop is so slow is because of the Spider-Man hype that spawned out of nowhere when Spider-Man was around. Because of it; a lot of things were changed. Listing what I know off top of my head, so not all of it may be accurate.

-Lace radius was increased
-When users have a lace, can not stare directly at that target and it ultimate anymore
-Air Acceleration slightly nerfed?
-LongJump boosts adjusted for Succubus Hunter, Chameleon, Spider-man, and =Jack=


As far as everything else Pie Q mentioned; i'm not gonna say anything about it. Neither for nor against it. Other than the Fagabond / Vaginalion bit. That made me chuckle... Only because Vagalion has a lower jump but slightly faster than a Vagabond, but Vagabond jumps higher than a Vagalion. Pretty sure they are using the same numbers too, but I have no evidence as to if I know this or not because I don't.






Since this is a "Balance Suggestion" Thread, here's my two cents

-Reduce Lace range back to what it was before the Spider-Man rage quitting.
-Give Vagalion less gravity for equality between Vagabond/Vagalion OR give Vagabond more gravity. They both teleport similarly but Vagabond is more mobile at getting to the air than a Vagalion. If the numbers are the same as before the server got reset, then nevermind.

[the_best_noob]

So, uh, basically, remove the need to switch races to counter a specific person? Seriously, the reason for races having very different abilities is so that they are effective/ineffective against other races.

I support the succumbs changes, but I also don't want more people to start playing it.

[What]

Pie Q? More like Pie Ewwww!

Still holds true