002 Human Alliance [0] v1.1.0

[CYBER]

inner cooldown of 1-2s for bash anyone?

[What]

No, the race is fine as is, sometimes you win the bash game, sometimes you lose it.

[brett friggin favre]

I say nay. The more nitpicky we get with these skills, the nite jumbled it's gonna get and the more complicated the code gets.

[CYBER]

No, the race is fine as is, sometimes you win the bash game, sometimes you lose it.

I just loooooove it when u walk somewhere and u just read 6-7 "you got bashed!" Messages from somewhere on the map.. If the bash rate would make it so that u have at least 1-2s of being able to shoot or press a damn button or smthn, then its fine, but a perma stack of bashes is becoming a very common thing, 1st bash is all it takes for a kill

[What]

I just loooooove it when u walk somewhere and u just read 6-7 "you got bashed!" Messages from somewhere on the map.. If the bash rate would make it so that u have at least 1-2s of being able to shoot or press a damn button or smthn, then its fine, but a perma stack of bashes is becoming a very common thing, 1st bash is all it takes for a kill

It would make the human very nerfed. Also, you would have to do it to every other race with a percentage chance ability, make undead vampiric have a cool down, make banish have a cool down, make crit strike have a cool down, etc.

[CYBER]

It would make the human very nerfed. Also, you would have to do it to every other race with a percentage chance ability, make undead vampiric have a cool down, make banish have a cool down, make crit strike have a cool down, etc.

not really... If there's anything that i learned from any skill-based game, is that OP skills need to have a control mechanism to prevent it from being THE dominating and uncontested best skill.

Go and ask on the servers, ask WHAT's the BEST SKILL in the server, at any time? Almost every single vote will be bash, almost uncontested.
Crit heals and damages can be mitigated by dealing damage, self healing, evade, self invul, etc.

Whereas Bash, and any form of freeze has absolutely NO counter whatsoever. even a molecule in a bubble, a shadow hunter invul, a nightelf/spidey/eyerae evade does NOT negate the bash. it will negate damage, and crits mostly, but NOT BASH

Why would evades negate my crit damages from orc, and any other form of on-shoot effect, EXCEPt the human bash? even flyers get frozen in place, and teleporters unable to teleport...
BASH has NO COUNTER WHATSOEVER. And you of all people know that the shadow hunter Hex is never reliable, and if it procs (once in a lifetime) it will only proc so many times on an enemy clip when every other shot is bashing

So until there's an actual item that can prevent skill-based effects or damage, even for consumed for 10s of skill-immunity like an anti-ward for 5k $, then the skill itself must not be THE dominating skill around.

There's not even need to put an inner cooldown on most the skills in game, except bash, and MAYBE a 0.1s cooldown on jack unique skills to fix the pump shotty abusing of its abilities.
What's the point of having crit damage or leech or wtvr if i am bashed throughout 95% of the duration that u face a human?and with their insane hp and invis, good luck getting the upper hand and killing them before ONE bash procs... and then it's fucking GG, not because the player is skillfull and can counter u now, but because that ONE bash will keep u there enough for the 8 successive bashes that will come after...
even a 0.5s cooldown (cooldown of usp bullets) is more than enough to make the skill still amazingly strong, but not abusable and the best fucking uncontested skill...

but wtvr, i know it's more work, but it shouldnt be that hard anymore after zero discovered a way to carry inner cooldowns for ultimates from round to round last year... im just throwing my observation from playing a couple more skill-based games recently

- - - Updated - - -

I say nay. The more nitpicky we get with these skills, the nite jumbled it's gonna get and the more complicated the code gets.

also... "nite" ? :P

[What]

bash is the best skill because of the total package of what human is, personally, and i know im not alone, banish and panorama screen flip are far worse than the bash. Again, doing anything to the bash makes the human significantly worse, and in fairness you would need to do the same to all other skills that are percentage based, which then nullifys the point of having a percentage based system in the first place.

[CYBER]

bash is the best skill because of the total package of what human is, personally, and i know im not alone, banish and panorama screen flip are far worse than the bash. Again, doing anything to the bash makes the human significantly worse, and in fairness you would need to do the same to all other skills that are percentage based, which then nullifys the point of having a percentage based system in the first place.

who said cooldowns would be identical to eachother? if a race's skill is mediocre at best, then u wouldnt need a cooldwn for it... in fact, having an innner cooldown can just be a variable that can be reduced to 0 by zero on the "weak" skills, but modified based on how op that skill is... human bash for example.
banish is annoying true, but its only annoying bcos of the duration of it, not the multiple procs of it, and u can always gtfo with a speed race if banished or throw a flash and make evryone blind till u can see... but with bash, u're just gonna chill there... or grenade urself, the usual.

im just saying that tiny variable cooldowns (no more than 1s at best) even a 0.01 cooldown (jack for example, on each seperate skill proccing), is not a bad idea and u know it...

[What]

who said cooldowns would be identical to eachother? if a race's skill is mediocre at best, then u wouldnt need a cooldwn for it... in fact, having an innner cooldown can just be a variable that can be reduced to 0 by zero on the "weak" skills, but modified based on how op that skill is... human bash for example.
banish is annoying true, but its only annoying bcos of the duration of it, not the multiple procs of it, and u can always gtfo with a speed race if banished or throw a flash and make evryone blind till u can see... but with bash, u're just gonna chill there... or grenade urself, the usual.

im just saying that tiny variable cooldowns (no more than 1s at best) even a 0.01 cooldown (jack for example, on each seperate skill proccing), is not a bad idea and u know it...

Judging what skills are strong and which are weak is not possible, it all depends what you do with them and how lucky you get with them. Sure things like spike carapaced vs extra health are easy enough, but maser vs thunderbolt vs crit strike? Cooldown is unnecessary.


With Jack all I advocate, and have been advocating, is restricting claws of attack on that race, which I thought Zero said he was going to do.

[CYBER]

Judging what skills are strong and which are weak is not possible, it all depends what you do with them and how lucky you get with them. Sure things like spike carapaced vs extra health are easy enough, but maser vs thunderbolt vs crit strike? Cooldown is unnecessary.


With Jack all I advocate, and have been advocating, is restricting claws of attack on that race, which I thought Zero said he was going to do.

claw of attack and ak not as effective as claw of attack and shotty...
in fact, even without the claw, shotty is very problematic on jack...
if there was a 0.0001 cooldown of each skill on jack, it would allow the POSSIBILITY of proc'ing one of each (clubs, hearts, diamond) on a shotty burst, but not many of them at the same time...
u're trying to remove an item completely from a race just because of a combo it can do with another weapon on THAT race.
a tiny 0.00001 cooldown on skills would solve THIS problem and many many others without forcing people who use claws on jack with a scout or deagle or wtvr the fuck they use to be punished for jack/claw/shotty...

but that's a chat reserved to the jack thread, im talking about bash being an op skill that does MORE than just freeze.
Between freezing, fucking up your aim (yes, still does that, not as strong as before but still does that) and negating your exit strategies, the skill itself should be either nerfed with an inner cooldown, or turned into something that would simply fuck your aim and not freeze your or vice versa...the latter being impossible, an inner cooldown is more effective than an overall proc % nerf...

althought i certainly wouldn't mind a proc% nerf, even though an inner cooldown will solve multiple issues we have...
allowing zero to increase some % procs on some races (like rapscallion blades and others, while still controllable...)...
hell if u wanna talk about jack? and undead and santa? with an inner cooldown to negate the claw/shotty whoring, u can now increase the amount of health leeched, without making a race op because it would still be controllable.

nway,,, Wolf will be able to explain this a lot better than me... i think he's more intuitive when it comes to exploits and combinations, with his experience in wcs overall, and his league experience on stats and items.
he was planning on posting here... no idea where he is now