002 Human Alliance [0] v1.1.0

[What]

claw of attack and ak not as effective as claw of attack and shotty...
in fact, even without the claw, shotty is very problematic on jack...
if there was a 0.0001 cooldown of each skill on jack, it would allow the POSSIBILITY of proc'ing one of each (clubs, hearts, diamond) on a shotty burst, but not many of them at the same time...
u're trying to remove an item completely from a race just because of a combo it can do with another weapon on THAT race.
a tiny 0.00001 cooldown on skills would solve THIS problem and many many others without forcing people who use claws on jack with a scout or deagle or wtvr the fuck they use to be punished for jack/claw/shotty...

but that's a chat reserved to the jack thread, im talking about bash being an op skill that does MORE than just freeze.
Between freezing, fucking up your aim (yes, still does that, not as strong as before but still does that) and negating your exit strategies, the skill itself should be either nerfed with an inner cooldown, or turned into something that would simply fuck your aim and not freeze your or vice versa...the latter being impossible, an inner cooldown is more effective than an overall proc % nerf...

althought i certainly wouldn't mind a proc% nerf, even though an inner cooldown will solve multiple issues we have...
allowing zero to increase some % procs on some races (like rapscallion blades and others, while still controllable...)...
hell if u wanna talk about jack? and undead and santa? with an inner cooldown to negate the claw/shotty whoring, u can now increase the amount of health leeched, without making a race op because it would still be controllable.

nway,,, Wolf will be able to explain this a lot better than me... i think he's more intuitive when it comes to exploits and combinations, with his experience in wcs overall, and his league experience on stats and items.
he was planning on posting here... no idea where he is now

I.......Disagree

[Wolfenstinger]

Internal CDs within spells aren't a terrible idea however. Depsite there having to be a lot of recoding maybe?? Example : Bash having a 1sec internal CD. Now this is just for ONE human. You can have 2 humans that'll beable to stack bash however, or spidey / human, but that's just teamwork there.

W/o Internal CDs, it's technically just possible to proc bash instead 100 consecutive times with a para. Figuring you are on a luck streak like that. CSS itself has internal CDs (reloading, switching guns, dropping guns, rate of fire on weapons, throwing nades).

Would it make the gameplay for WCS more balanced? Depends on the internal CD added to the on-hit ability. This could be done for phoenix as well (ex. after a player is revived, next player can not be revived by this bloodmage's phoenix for the next 3-5 seconds). Stops the whole revive spam from multiple blood mages, but this means that it has a chance to combo if there are multiple blood mages on the team, causing mass revives and nobody dying.

The way WCS is right now, its whoever gets the most procs. It doesn't matter how many procs, just has to be lucky proc streaks and aim.

[What]

The way WCS is right now, its whoever gets the most procs. It doesn't matter how many procs, just has to be lucky proc streaks and aim.

That was kind of my point, you could not just do it for human, that would not be fair, you would have to do it for all races with a percentage chance, which i think is unnecessary.

[Passarelli]

The amount of code for this is actually negligible. It is all on how zero wants it done ; p Also, bash is pretty overpowered on every race that has it, What, meaning it isn't just the human package that makes it good.

Die Xonvert bash is gross, especially with claws. Spider man's bash is a integral part of it's kit. Jack knockup (works very similarly to bash on most races, with the exception of flying races) is just lawlz. I would be happier if claws were restricted on all of these races, especially if you consider that none of these races get claws for the extra damage.

The simplest and most fair way to fix these issues would simply be to make claws not proc skills. Either that, or add info to the tooltip so it is more common knowledge that claws give another chance to proc an on shot ability and increase their cost. They are very inexpensive when you equate in the extra chance for a proc.

[CYBER]

The amount of code for this is actually negligible. It is all on how zero wants it done ; p Also, bash is pretty overpowered on every race that has it, What, meaning it isn't just the human package that makes it good.

Die Xonvert bash is gross, especially with claws. Spider man's bash is a integral part of it's kit. Jack knockup (works very similarly to bash on most races, with the exception of flying races) is just lawlz. I would be happier if claws were restricted on all of these races, especially if you consider that none of these races get claws for the extra damage.

The simplest and most fair way to fix these issues would simply be to make claws not proc skills. Either that, or add info to the tooltip so it is more common knowledge that claws give another chance to proc an on shot ability and increase their cost. They are very inexpensive when you equate in the extra chance for a proc.

thing with "claws" is that it only procs on-target effects... not alllll effects.
put a claw on jack and people are singing the hail mary 1 round in. same for bash

put that claw on a santa, it gets 0 leech, mainly because of how it's coded... so i do agree on 1 thing, claw should either proc all shooting/knifing based effects, or none at all.

[ZERO]

There is a cooldown to prevent bash stacking:

//Will only trigger from things not listed below
        if(!StrEqual(weapon,"hegrenade",false))
        {
            //abilities below
            //Bash
            new skill_level=skill_level_bash[attacker];
            if(skill_level>0 && Math_GetRandomFloat(0.0, 1.0) <= BashChance[skill_level])
            {
                //Bash can only occur if target is not already bashed
                if(BashTimer[victim] == INVALID_HANDLE)
                {
                    //Slow client and start timer
                    War3_SetBuff( victim, fSlow, thisRaceID, 0.00000001 );
                    BashTimer[victim] = CreateTimer(1.0,expire_slow,victim);
                    
                    //effect
                    new Float:Position[3];
                    GetClientAbsOrigin(victim, Position);
                    
                    est_Effect11(SpawnSprite, Position, 1.0, 2.3, 90);
                    TE_SendToAll();    
                    
                    CPrintToChat(attacker, "{gold}Bashed enemy");
                    CPrintToChat(victim, "{gold}You got bashed");
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

//Remove slow after time
public Action:expire_slow(Handle:timer,any:victim)
{
    //Code to run when timer ends
    BashTimer[victim] = INVALID_HANDLE;
    
    //Return cleint to normal speed
    if(Client_IsValid(victim))
    {
        War3_SetBuff( victim, fSlow, thisRaceID, 1.0 );
    }
}

[ZERO]

As a result of the above any shots that trigger bash when a player is bashed are filtered. However after a player is no longer bashed the next shot and preceding shots that hit have the bash chance to activate. This is different from before where previously bash could stack thus making it so lets say 0.5 sec into the bash it triggered again causing it to last for 1.5 seconds total and so on. As usual the chance for the event to occur in a given time frame is based on the number of event triggers set off during that time (ie faster weapons have better chance to go off).

Honestly the root issue is just people using those fast low damage weapons to increase the % chance of a event trigger. For skills like bash this is good for for things where the benefit is based on the damage dealt it is not so good.

[kionay]

maybe bash should be based on damage done? or perhaps have a damage modifier so that bigger more innaccurate weapons have closer to the same chance to proc as the smaller weapons

though i'm assuming that would cause issues with claw :-/

[CYBER]

As a result of the above any shots that trigger bash when a player is bashed are filtered. However after a player is no longer bashed the next shot and preceding shots that hit have the bash chance to activate. This is different from before where previously bash could stack thus making it so lets say 0.5 sec into the bash it triggered again causing it to last for 1.5 seconds total and so on. As usual the chance for the event to occur in a given time frame is based on the number of event triggers set off during that time (ie faster weapons have better chance to go off).

Honestly the root issue is just people using those fast low damage weapons to increase the % chance of a event trigger. For skills like bash this is good for for things where the benefit is based on the damage dealt it is not so good.

ok, there's a cooldown to prevent bash stacking WHILE you are bashed, but nevertheless, the second you are unbashed, it will immediate stack again considering the high proc rate of bash.


I'm still advocating for either a lower bash proc chance, or preferably a 0.5s delay AFTER the initial bash is OVER to proc the second bash.
with an average reaction time of 0.4-0.6s for decent people, they might be able to react in that window of time instead of just standing there, rooted...

i know it's because of fastshooting guns, but the ability is too strong...
at least make it so that EVADING the shot, or going invulnerable prevents the stack, since the bullet "technically" shouldnt have hit/pierced you to proc the effects...
oh well, your call rly, just posting what i see in game

[ZERO]

Evasion skills are going to be updated to use OnW3TakeDmgAllPre to prevent this.