011 Molecule [160] v1.0.6

[Masskid]

Claws on jack is a huge issue due to the way abilities work on the server, it increases the chances significantly, especially when combined with a shotty to the point where a single skill, like clubs, can be activated multiple times on a single shot.

Ok probably wrong place to talk about jack. BUT what if there was a VERY small cooldown for the skills like .01 second so that it wouldnt allow it to proc multi times at once. this would weaken claw and Shotgun in one blow without Super nerfhammering jack

[Passarelli]

What, Spiderman already has helm restricted from them. That was actually where my idea came from. Their ults are very different, but unless someone gets very lucky or has spasm like skill, weblines makes you nearly as immune to damage. I believe this is why Helm was restricted from them, so that when they do land to shoot a couple shots, a good player that lands a headshot has a 70% chance of killing them. With molecule, even if you time it properly to pop out when their bubble ends and you shoot them in the face, there is a 67% chance of only dealing 30-40 damage. By the time they'd be hit again, they almost always get out of dodge and put enough distance between you to get their ultimate back again.

Also, I am well aware that hex is only a percentage chance. However, 10+ shots directly into the back of your head and you still don't die 90% of the time? This seems slightly outrageous, and removing helm would go a long way to elevate that. I also really have not noticed hex giving immunity to anything other then molecule bubble, and if that is the case it is pretty underpowered. I'd like to see the percentage for hex to go up, or make it work for a much larger array of skills. (However, I still have not tested this to be sure that things such as Locust swarm have a chance to be evaded.)

I would definitely like to test this as well as a few other things. Message me tomorrow night when I get on at around 2 or 2:30 am if any of you are up.

P.S. - Masskid, don't forget about the Para on spiderman. Glad you agree that restricting helm on molecule is reasonable ^_^

[What]

Hex on Shadow hunter is a percentage chance per round, not per shot. Its either going to work or it isn't. The relative number of shots is irrelevant. I don't see why helm would be restricted on molecule over any other race, particularly things like human or night elf. Helm is annoying, thats why it costs 3500 dollars.

[CYBER]

Hex on Shadow hunter is a percentage chance per round, not per shot. Its either going to work or it isn't. The relative number of shots is irrelevant. I don't see why helm would be restricted on molecule over any other race, particularly things like human or night elf. Helm is annoying, thats why it costs 3500 dollars.

DONT worry about it, IF zero introduces the weight-ed items that take up multiple slots, then we wont need to actually restrict helm from human...

Human with lace and helm is "OK", it's the fact that u have a health pack with it with insane healthbar that makes it op. for all u know, u might shoot or knife a human with a helm and insta-kill them now without the extra health...

same for molecule, with the new system zero is invisioning, buying a helm on a molecule will require a heavy investment,
a lace is almost a MUST on molecule because they are gonna use shadow hunters with invul to try to kill you, and if u use a helm, then it will take up the chance to buy a health pack to whistand hits, and even worse, u wont be able to buy antiwards on the go without sacrifying either the lace (unlikely) or helm (more likely)...


so yeah, i think it's the fact that the helm can just be "added" on top of ur gear like a cherry on a chocolate cake that's the problem... not the item itself ALONE for human... on molecule it's still strong true, but human helm combo will be nerfed big time.

[Passarelli]

This would weaken helm even more then it already is though. It isn't so absurdly OP on other races. I like buying it for undead, shadow hunter, and a half dozen other races without necessarily buying a lace or health. This would be fine if it were race specific. What other items are going to be weighted like this? If you do it for helm, you might want to take the other more powerful items that most people buy (health and lace). Make each of these cost 2, the other cheaper items each cost 1, and there are 4 slots. This will let you pick 2 of the 3 items and forgo any others; or other combinations that arent as powerful, such as one of those, plus mask and claws. Alternatively, you could get 4 of the less powerful items, such as claws, orb, mask, cat. You could make this system as complex as you like to add another layer of asymmetric balance. Just be cautious of making it too difficult for newbies. This would likely take some time to balance also, as items such as claws or cat may also want to be increased to 2 slots.

My balance of the top of my head would be:
6 slots

Cost 3 slots each: Helm, Lace, Health
Cost 2 slots each: Claw, Cat
Cost 1 slot each: Everything else

[What]

Why in the fuck would you even consider lace worth three slots? its an essential item that you need to have or you're gonna be fucked.

[CYBER]

Why in the fuck would you even consider lace worth three slots? its an essential item that you need to have or you're gonna be fucked.

I think his logic behind it was to break the lace health claw combo +shotty on jacks.

i did question why a lace would take out 3 slots if it's the most essential item... and after a while of thinking, i agree with it being multiple-slots. THE FACT IS, BECAUSE it's the most essential item, it should take a couple slots at least, as opposed the other weak items like sock, ring, mask, boot, orb, gloves, antiward, etc, because IF you really need the lace, it will take [xxx...] slots, and then u can fill the rest with either high level items, or 3 low level items.

if the lace is 1 slot, u will ALWAYS see someone with [x.....] that buys FIVE more items including the ability to constantly heal and regen and cloak etc...
IF someone wants to run around with SIX items on them, they will need to sacrifice buying a lace... now sometimes a lace can be ignored if there are no athenas/nightelf/shadowhunter/vagas in game, but u'll be taking a huge risk if someone swapped to those and made u lose all ur items bcos u got greedy.

HOWEVER, i cant say that "3" is the best number, MAYBE "2"... it needs testing, everything needs testing. there needs to be a way to break the lace health helm on human ( 2+3+3=8>6 this definitely prevents it), and the lace health claws on jack (2+3+2=7>6 this breaks it too), and allow more variable builds.

helm is the ONLY item GUARANTEED to be a 3-slot item because it's a luxury item that is usually added on top of any build.
personally i would love to see lace and health at 2-slots, while claws cat and helm go up to 3.

[What]

Lace is essential, I feel like we already did this song and dance somewhere else. When weighted slots do make an appearance, the only fair thing to do is to make it one slot. You need a lace, its not an advantage, its a defense, and essential nearly every round you play. It really is that simple.

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And helm should be 2 slot max, 3 slot would make it completely unused by 99% of the people, which is fucking stupid, you need to be able to have a lace and at least 1 other "good" item. No item should be 3 slots, ever.

[CYBER]

Lace is essential, I feel like we already did this song and dance somewhere else. When weighted slots do make an appearance, the only fair thing to do is to make it one slot. You need a lace, its not an advantage, its a defense, and essential nearly every round you play. It really is that simple.

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And helm should be 2 slot max, 3 slot would make it completely unused by 99% of the people, which is fucking stupid, you need to be able to have a lace and at least 1 other "good" item. No item should be 3 slots, ever.

READ What... What pass posted was under the asumption of SIX slots, not the three u think.

[Passarelli]

I chose that as an example. Also, I thought 3 was decent balance in a 6 slot system. You can do decently without a lace if you learn how to counter things without it. It would also mean you had to make a hard choice and mean that ultimates are still somewhat useful after the first 4 rounds (where almost everyone has a lace).

Keep in mind that I only thought of this after cyber made the comment about weighting helm to take up 2 slots rather then 1. I agree that it would be much simpler to simply restrict the item on some races. This method, however, would also add another layer of asymmetric balance.

Helm and Health should definitely take 3 slots. Personally, I think lace should also be 3, but 2 would be fine. This would make it so you would actually see people buying orb or mask much more, and less people grabbing helm, health, or lace.

I understand some of those items are cheaper, but when 90% of people buy helm, health, and lace, with the 9% of the remaining buy 2 out of the 3, it tends to show that they are much more desired and thus forcing the player to make a hard choice out of 2 or the 3, or buying 1 a weak item and a midrange, or all midrange/weak items. Ideal balance would be making each of the items as desirable as each of the others.

I also like this design better then the one I have heard floated of making an item that makes you immune to the effects of other's laces for 10-15 seconds, like an antiward. However, even this could fit if you make it take 6 slots and thus clear all other items in your inventory.

By the way, it isn't specifically helm and health that are overpowered. It's that if you have both of those plus a lace, you greatly limit the ways someone can actually kill you to the point of absurdness. This only means that even more people will use that combo and it becomes a vicious cycle and hardly any of the other items get any love at all.