016 Vagabond [310] v1.1.8

[CYBER]

Not even close to being most bitched about race. Also, it's fine as it is.

hey new guy, u see the guy i just quoted? CLICK ON HIS FUCKING LINK AND LEARN HOW TO COUNTER VAGAS.

Vaga is NOT op. its very balanced. Buy a goddamn lace, sty out of the open, LISTEN, pay attention to the radar, learn their tells, stop being a bitch, and learn to play the game.If u cant do all of the above with erdenay's guide whih includes a 'how to kill the vaga monster' guide, then u simply dnt belong in here.

As simple as that. Everyone bitches about vagas and claim they will op to if they ised but the bottom line is that almost every idiot who couldnt counter a vaga will BECOME a crappy vaga and suck balls at it because its not that easy to master. Might be easy to play with a bunch of noobs that cant counter them (like u) but put them against me, wolf spasm tom masskid (whether we are vagas or not) and u'll see them crumble.

Also 3 seconds? Did u get high on raging before posting this? NO to ur entire post.

Read how many ppl bitched about it before in this same thread and u'll see them now able to counter those same vagas bcos they learned to stop bitching about OPness and start learning.

[SCRIBBLE]

CYBER are you trying to alienate new players?

[KholdStare]

Jesus such violent backlash against a suggestion! Okay maybe 3 seconds IS overkill but hard to understand why people freak out so much over a ONE second ultimate cooldown suggestion! Or if one item (necklace) was restricted! This would allow NE to be a viable anti-vega race. My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

Balance should mean that on average, no race is clearly better than the rest. I would bet that vegabond is the most played race on the server (I dont think i have ever seen a map go by without both teams having a vegabond...) and that if the player is any good, they are on the top of their team. That is not balanced. That is heavily skewed towards the vegabond. I'm not saying it is unkillable or that there are no counters. However - in the situation that you are NOT in tight spaces it can be very difficult to overcome. I see players who I easily kill when they are on normal races do many times better when they are on vegabond. If a players normal KDR is way lower than their kdr with a certain race, it is safe to say that the race is overpowered. I see dudes going 40:3 with vegabond - try and tell me that they would get the same score with another race!

[CYBER]

CYBER are you trying to alienate new players?

not trying. But hey i it comes with the package, so be it. I'm just tired of people whi dnt know the my favorite race coming in and bashing on it when they simply don't understand the complex gameplay behind it. Ppl just claim it's op and so easy, once they start playing it, the end up slamming their face to the wall more than rihanna face under chris brown's hands.

Also, kholdstare, vaga is not the most played/op race in the server. U want op? Human, jack on claws, nebula, molecule on helm, lucky spidey evader...

Yeah, any one of those can buy a cheapass pace and get a vaga stuck, but unless the vaga takes 'em out with speed and swiftness and stealth, vaga is not a match for those races on average.

And if u claim he can kill from distance? Fine, but that still leaves ur comment about nerfig the vaga tele and lace useless . Not to mention nebula can down right disappear, molecule can evade 3-4 vaga scout/knife before it actually dies, human can take about 3 hits before dying (thats if u're lucky enough to find it hiding before it bashes u and locks ur crosshair permanently), and the spidey and jack have gap-closing speeds AND abiliies to fuck ur aim and get u stuck, lace or no lace...

The only reason vagas are seen played sooo much is not bcos of race op-ness but player preference. If im playing cbble or dolls or semi open map, vagas are just a gd choice to play. U want to see map with litle to no vaga gameplay on average? OFFICE. Why? Bcos it doesnt favor vaga.

So its not the race that's op. ppl just know when and how to use it. On office, shadow and molecule/nebule/human become dominant races...

So yeah, again, not tryin to be a dick, but learn to counter instead of bitching about balance.

Hell, hit me up sometime later and i'll personally teach u how to find them on the test server.

Just dnt go making false nerf claims if u're just wrong

[ZERO]

Jesus such violent backlash against a suggestion! Okay maybe 3 seconds IS overkill but hard to understand why people freak out so much over a ONE second ultimate cooldown suggestion! Or if one item (necklace) was restricted! This would allow NE to be a viable anti-vega race. My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

Balance should mean that on average, no race is clearly better than the rest. I would bet that vegabond is the most played race on the server (I dont think i have ever seen a map go by without both teams having a vegabond...) and that if the player is any good, they are on the top of their team. That is not balanced. That is heavily skewed towards the vegabond. I'm not saying it is unkillable or that there are no counters. However - in the situation that you are NOT in tight spaces it can be very difficult to overcome. I see players who I easily kill when they are on normal races do many times better when they are on vegabond. If a players normal KDR is way lower than their kdr with a certain race, it is safe to say that the race is overpowered. I see dudes going 40:3 with vegabond - try and tell me that they would get the same score with another race!

Actually balance means that some things work well against others and not well agents other things. This is like having the kids that selected bulbasaur said the game was unbalanced b/c everyone else keeps using charmander while ignoring the fact that they had the option to select squirtle. They then complain that while the other 2 are hard counts for stuff that bulbasaur is not as effective against squirtle as charmander is against it. Well bulbasaur is a hard counter to something that the other two are not as good against but fuck if I remember what that is.

Point being that balance means that some races are clearly better than others at killing other particular races. Inbalance would be when there is a race that can not be countered by anything and has very high KDR against every other race type.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

Here is the KDR for how well Vagabond kills the level 0 races, you know the ones that EVERY PLAYER has access to:
Undead Scourge: 1.96
Orcish Horde: 1.89
Night Elf: 1.63
Human Alliance: 0.98

So while it is good against a lot of things even a starter race and that data includes all the clueless noobs that do not even know how to play the game yet using Human Alliance kill Vag more than it kills them. Also while there are 9 races that get better than 1:1 exchanges with Vag there is only 6 races that get better than a 1:1 exchange with Human which is why it has always been considered a very powerful race.

Now it is important to note that there is races coming in the future that will more directly hard counter races like vag and force that race to play differently but right now there is no immediate balance issue when the correct counters are used.

[What]

How has no one mentioned he is lumping rapscallion in with the vagas and even wants that race's ultimate nerfed. You know, cause raps are a bitch to counter.

[Chikun]

Now it is important to note that there are races coming in the future

Joy boner activated.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

If you think that vagabond is a weak race because its cooldown goes up ONE second, then you are clearly using the ult as a crutch.

not...really. people use vaga's ult as a weapoin. ever been knifed by a vaga thats flying through the air? vagabond is a classic race on our server, and has always been the exact same as it currently is.

My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

that's kinda why we have shadow hunter at such a low level req. it allows newer people to hold their own against the higher-leveled races.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

you're new to this server. we don't give a shit about your previous experience with WCS. you can propose all you want, but you'd be wrong. vagabond is 100% in line with how it's meant to be played here.

note that they still need to come out of invisibility to shoot. vagabonds rely on being able to outsmart you, and leave your field of vision. because when they teleport, it's easy to see where they landed (generally. we have some VERY good 'bond and 'lion players). the ONLY race atm that requires nerfs is spiderman.

[SCRIBBLE]

Here is a dead horse. Aco will pass around the sticks and we each get a turn.

[Chikun]

Here is a dead horse. Aco will pass around the sticks and we each get a turn.

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.