Next time someone bitches about impalance

[Erdenay]

Wich points? u r the ones failing at explaining why awp/auto are retricted and why do u say that both vagas arent op when they are retricted to one.
I already explained some of my points and some of my sugestions to acolyte_to_jippity wich was the only one that was nice and respectful.

I'm happy that you actually read my post! Oh. Wait.

oh i saw ur "points" i didnt read it before because i took a look at this and didnt read more:

Either I misunderstand your english due to bad grammar... Or you're not all that bright. Re-read what you've just wrote here.

I have 152hours of game play in this server in just a few months if that isnt enough im sorry cs isnt my life.

It's sad that 152 hours don't really teach you anything then. It would be enough for most people, but looking at your comments, seems like you haven't learn while playing those hours.

U shouldnt restrict to balance u should nerf/buff to balance.

Restricting to balance is absolutely fine for these reasons:
1) It's nearly impossible to have absolute balance just by nerfing/buffing all races and that would take much more effort than required.
2) Some races, such as vagabonds, work better when they're restricted - a server full of stuck vagabonds or a server full of molecules would not be fun for anyone.
3) Most of the restricted races are higher level races in a way to reward and give a sense of accomplishment.

Again if they r easy to counter why r they retricted doesnt make sense.

Read the posts above this. Vaga wars can already be quite annoying and there's no reason to extend that. Furthermore, playing a restricted race (we can take one of the vagas for example, because they seem to be your biggest problem) again shows that you've earned it through effort and blood and it reflects it.

LOL?!?! Since when Scout takes more skill? U can hit with a scout with no scope from miles away u can jump/run with it and hit someone easily, u cant do that with an awp.
Awp and auto are part of the game they shouldnt be retritcted...

Umm... Yes you can? It's a 1 shot (for the most part) kill with AWP (especially with extra damage) whereas with a scout you need to be much more precise (headshot) or risk being hit and dying. You can no scope with awp just as well as with scout. If you have a problem with not seeing these guns... Well, go play in our pub server or somewhere else. AWP on a WCS is over-powered and it makes it much more balanced when you don't have one.

So u want it to be a strategic game but u retrict awp and auto wich make part of the game and take part of the strategy... doesnt make sence. In tournaments those weapons arent retricted.

Because tournaments are not playing in WarCraft mod. AWP takes away some of the skill from the game, which is why it is not in our WCS server. There's not that much strategy in 1 hitting a person with AWP...

@brett friggin favre Didnt read ur post. U are in my "ignore list".

Trust me, this is not leaving a good impression and I'd suggest changing your manner of approach and discussion as this will lead you nowhere.

[LogaN]

I'm happy that you actually read my post! Oh. Wait.




Either I misunderstand your english due to bad grammar... Or you're not all that bright. Re-read what you've just wrote here.



It's sad that 152 hours don't really teach you anything then. It would be enough for most people, but looking at your comments, seems like you haven't learn while playing those hours.



Restricting to balance is absolutely fine for these reasons:
1) It's nearly impossible to have absolute balance just by nerfing/buffing all races and that would take much more effort than required.
2) Some races, such as vagabonds, work better when they're restricted - a server full of stuck vagabonds or a server full of molecules would not be fun for anyone.
3) Most of the restricted races are higher level races in a way to reward and give a sense of accomplishment.



Read the posts above this. Vaga wars can already be quite annoying and there's no reason to extend that. Furthermore, playing a restricted race (we can take one of the vagas for example, because they seem to be your biggest problem) again shows that you've earned it through effort and blood and it reflects it.



Umm... Yes you can? It's a 1 shot (for the most part) kill with AWP (especially with extra damage) whereas with a scout you need to be much more precise (headshot) or risk being hit and dying. You can no scope with awp just as well as with scout. If you have a problem with not seeing these guns... Well, go play in our pub server or somewhere else. AWP on a WCS is over-powered and it makes it much more balanced when you don't have one.



Because tournaments are not playing in WarCraft mod. AWP takes away some of the skill from the game, which is why it is not in our WCS server. There's not that much strategy in 1 hitting a person with AWP...



Trust me, this is not leaving a good impression and I'd suggest changing your manner of approach and discussion as this will lead you nowhere.

Thanks. U r the one of the few(only 2) that explained their points and didnt just say "Hey im and admin here we dont take sugetions go fuck yourself"

And with awp u cant hit someone from miles aways with no scope or while running or jumping like u can with scout i tested it many times u can do it like 1/100 but with scout u just need to aim and shoot...

"1) It's nearly impossible to have absolute balance just by nerfing/buffing all races and that would take much more effort than required."
Thats impossible but u can get near there. :P

"2) Some races, such as vagabonds, work better when they're restricted - a server full of stuck vagabonds or a server full of molecules would not be fun for anyone."
I know im not saying they should be completly unretricted but the number could be increased... One thing that could fix the stuck problem is to divide the ultimate in two(if possible)
like lace should stop it if u try to go invisible but should alow u use it to become visible. Other thing that would make them less op is to increase a little cooldown like 2/3 seconds to it.
Spider is another race that could have his ult cooldown increase to 2/3 secs they already have speed and long jump...

3) Most of the restricted races are higher level races in a way to reward and give a sense of accomplishment.

high? 300 isnt high(atleast for me) i had 3500+ in another server and i got 1000+ in one month...

Sry about my grammar, english aint my main language, but its good enough for u to understand most of it :P
And thanks again for ur reply.

[Erdenay]

Thanks. U r the one of the few(only 2) that explained their points and didnt just say "Hey im and admin here we dont take sugetions go fuck yourself"

Most of people are civilized here - but someone new (it doesn't matter that you played a few odd hundred hours in the server - you are new to the forums) comes in and then suddenly starts attacking the server, that sort of feedback could be seen a mile away. I'm not saying that they've responded the best way possible - but your approach antagonized the vast majority of people here.

And with awp u cant hit someone from miles aways with no scope or while running or jumping like u can with scout i tested it many times u can do it like 1/100 but with scout u just need to aim and shoot...

Not quite as well as with scout, but you can still no scope pretty well. People already complain (including you) about vaga's power - now imagine a vagabond with an AWP who would 1 hit everyone 90% of the time? Yeah, not exactly something that we need at all. AWP would add no new dimensions to the server - it would not give anything at all except more people complaining about how this is bad, that is bad, etc.

"1) It's nearly impossible to have absolute balance just by nerfing/buffing all races and that would take much more effort than required."
Thats impossible but u can get near there. :P

There's more than one way to approach that balance - and I think IBIS has done quite well with those regards. As of now, there are no game breaking races or skills and you can counter anything with more than one race, strategy or item. Some of it requires skill, yes, but vagabonds are not even the main nuisances in the server... Those would be jacks and humans.

"2) Some races, such as vagabonds, work better when they're restricted - a server full of stuck vagabonds or a server full of molecules would not be fun for anyone."
I know im not saying they should be completly unretricted but the number could be increased... One thing that could fix the stuck problem is to divide the ultimate in two(if possible)
like lace should stop it if u try to go invisible but should alow u use it to become visible. Other thing that would make them less op is to increase a little cooldown like 2/3 seconds to it.
Spider is another race that could have his ult cooldown increase to 2/3 secs they already have speed and long jump...

Why? What's the point of those races having higher limits? What exactly would that bring to the table?

That would be changing the whole point and the dynamics of the races - and I definitely don't see that happening. Barring few maps (such as port), vaga's are not OP at all - you just have to be smart about them. Don't just stand in open places - lure them into smaller places, use flashlight, buy a lace - and barring few exceptionally good vagabonds/vagalion, you will have no problems killing most of them.

If you think this spiderman is bad... You should have seen it before the nerf - it could get to the enemy spawn in most maps in 5 seconds. It has been nerfed plenty and it's fine as it is. If you would increase the cooldown for either of those 2 races, it would be game breaking - they would lose their one main advantage and they'd no longer even be good races.

3) Most of the restricted races are higher level races in a way to reward and give a sense of accomplishment.

high? 300 isnt high(atleast for me) i had 3500+ in another server and i got 1000+ in one month...

Most people don't play as much as you do and there's still quite a few people who haven't reached that. It is also interesting to see how they promise to rape everyone once they get vaga... And then learn it's not that easy.

Sry about my grammar, english aint my main language, but its good enough for u to understand most of it :P
And thanks again for ur reply.

All of that is fine - English is my 3rd language as well. As long as you don't act like all knowing and instead of attacking the server, start civilized discussions and suggestions, you will be fine and most people (barring few) will not act assholes. However, as far as your proposed changes for "balance," I honestly don't see any of them happening.

[LogaN]

attacking the server

I didnt attack the server if it sounded like that im sorry i just tried to point flaw and give sugetions... But i really disgree when someone says that they r balanced when only 3 races can counter them and they can if u see them if u dont u r dead. but the thing that annoys me is that with their ulti they get to u in seconds and u dont even hear footsteps i rather play against a race thats always 100% invisible but i can hear them than against a vaga -.-

Not quite as well as with scout, but you can still no scope pretty well. People already complain (including you) about vaga's power - now imagine a vagabond with an AWP who would 1 hit everyone 90% of the time? Yeah, not exactly something that we need at all. AWP would add no new dimensions to the server - it would not give anything at all except more people complaining about how this is bad, that is bad, etc.

Vagas are retricted to scout/knife or only knife even if awp wasnt restricted they couldnt buy it :P. And i think i would prefer a vaga with an awp but without their ulti than a vaga as they r now...

There's more than one way to approach that balance - and I think IBIS has done quite well with those regards. As of now, there are no game breaking races or skills and you can counter anything with more than one race, strategy or item. Some of it requires skill, yes, but vagabonds are not even the main nuisances in the server... Those would be jacks and humans.

I dont have problem with those... the only thing i dont like is the "new" bash that mess up ur aim -.-

Why? What's the point of those races having higher limits? What exactly would that bring to the table?

That would be changing the whole point and the dynamics of the races - and I definitely don't see that happening. Barring few maps (such as port), vaga's are not OP at all - you just have to be smart about them. Don't just stand in open places - lure them into smaller places, use flashlight, buy a lace - and barring few exceptionally good vagabonds/vagalion, you will have no problems killing most of them.

If you think this spiderman is bad... You should have seen it before the nerf - it could get to the enemy spawn in most maps in 5 seconds. It has been nerfed plenty and it's fine as it is. If you would increase the cooldown for either of those 2 races, it would be game breaking - they would lose their one main advantage and they'd no longer even be good races.

The problem is their mobility is alot higher than most of the other races if u dont want to nerf them atleast buff the others... they Already have high speed, low grav, invisiblity, stun, flickering why they need an ultimate that makes them go "around the world" in 3 seconds...
Someone that knows how to bhop just need speed and low grav to go "around the world" in 5 secs why would they need more?

However, as far as your proposed changes for "balance," I honestly don't see any of them happening.

Well i made a list with some but after reading ur post i deleted the ones about changing vagas and spider ulti but i still thing that their mobility is to high..


Tell me what u think about them:

Add the window that u get with blood mage telling u that u revived someone to other races that can ress instead of just text(So u can easily see it and do need to look at the chat).

Races that can revive ppl could get a small amount of xp when ppl revived by them get kills. This would make ppl level their ress skills first to help their team win the round.

Knife and head shot kill could give a xp bonus.

Drecrease the number of items u can buy to 1. Races should be good because their skill set is good not because u have good items.

Get a bonus exp if u plant/defuse/save hosties (teammates around u also get the bonus).

If the code that makes u unable to go past the maxed skill levels is hard to change u could add something like this, if u win a around with a maxed race and didnt die u would get like 100xp added to a bank then u could add it to anyother race u have.

If i remember anything else ill add more.

[B1ackOut]

But i really disgree when someone says that they r balanced when only 3 races can counter them and they can if u see them if u dont u r dead. but the thing that annoys me is that with their ulti they get to u in seconds and u dont even hear footsteps i rather play against a race thats always 100% invisible but i can hear them than against a vaga -.-

This is why we have laces. They will freeze the vaga when they get close to you and make it very easy to kill. The ultimate of the vaga races is what makes it a vaga race, it is supposed to be able to mess people up. Without that ultimate it is not a vaga. Also vaga ulti is not op as it makes a rather noticeable sound the closer they get to you. Someone who claims to be so skilled should have known that.

The problem is their mobility is alot higher than most of the other races if u dont want to nerf them atleast buff the others... they Already have high speed, low grav, invisiblity, stun, flickering why they need an ultimate that makes them go "around the world" in 3 seconds...
Someone that knows how to bhop just need speed and low grav to go "around the world" in 5 secs why would they need more?

Again this is the point of a Vaga race to be able to zip around the map at high speeds and invisible. The ultimate is easily counterable with a lace as they get frozen with only a knife out.

As for you list,
1) If you can not read chat then why should we add useless code?
2) This point as been brought up and denied I think.
3) No, this is a key feature of our wcs server, the ability to buff up your player has and will always be a part of the game.
4) We already do.
5) In a game based 100% on xp, why give away more xp than necessary to the killer, and why give xp and levels to a race you are not playing?

[HypeRNT]

Ok, listen let me explain to you by a guy who really doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks.

Vaga is strong, only at certain maps and situations, now if you said spiderman was OP, i woulda said yes, hes pretty gay on every map on every situation. Vaga is good when you have a good team, because that means the other team is going to lose and be poor making them have less of chance to have a lace or be smart enough to change race for you to counter. Vaga gets countered very easy, especially vagalion. Too many races these days being played like shadow of the void,warden,shadow hunter,human and athena that either have a lace automatically or have skills like bash to freeze vaga long enough to kill him. Its really that simple, even a flash light reveals you so its pretty basic killing vagas. And you really don't want them to be unrestricted because it would make this imbalanced due to too many people flying around from spwn to spwn picking of players that aren't vagabonds. I cant put it anymore simpler then this, they are STRONG, but not OP.

Now about the auto snipers and awps, i would definitely enable awps just because they really aren't great in wcs servers unless you have a race for them. On Ibis there is many races that have speed boosts and evasion and can fly, making awping without any other special powers really hard. Awp is expensive, heavy, and if you want to waste your money on it then go ahead.Can people do good with an awp? yeah of course, but would it be OP or imbalanced? i would say definitely no.
And auto snipers are different because they shoot at a faster rate, and are very accurate and this could be a small problem with some of the races like raiden, even though i still think it would be pretty useless against most races on most maps to even use auto.

Now the last part, you may not be new to the server, but you are new to the forums and the way things are done here. You don't try to come in with a bunch of people you are unfamiliar with and try to insult their server, that is rude and will definitely cause an argument. These guys know any and all problems that could be with the server, and if they thought it was important enough to do something about it, they would have done it long ago, clearly this is not the case so i suggest you drop the topic and just keep playing on the server.

[CYBER]

Half the shit you mentionned ALREADY exist on our server, which just shows u're a blind rage-a-holic that cant see balance of features in game if they smacked u in the face or fucked u in the ass. U're also a hypocrite talking out of ur ass because you contradict yourself every other word. First u claim that all races shouldnt be restricted, the u bitch about races being OP AND WANT TO NEEF THEM, then u bith that there shouldnt be item restriction on races, then u just claim that the number of heald item needs decrease on some races.... MAKE UP UR FUCKING MIND. The way i see it is that we already have a decent balance and you simply dont like how we compensate one thing for another to achieve that balance, and you want US to change everythin for YOU just so that we closer to a server u used to play on bcoa u cant play properly here for shhit... Erdenay is being more than tolerant with you, you're ranting and arguein with OPINION and not FACTS. This will never end ... I frankly prefer of if it was hyper argueig ... At least the fucker knows when to quit on a lost cause, and even HIM thinks u're useless. 150 hours is NOTHINg on this server, we have people that have over thousands of hours here and know more about the server than u claim. U're just too lazy to learn and adapt and want us to that for u. We make all the races here from scratch, ZERO codes them himself and maintains them himself and balances himself, stop taking pride in servers that just buy race packa for a price and just spam the server with shitty re-used races to make money off of u, here WE build the races, we build the balance, WE build the server, Nd no matter how hard u try, no one will give a damn about that u think. I actually think u're just butthurt about a few races and items, and cant adapt in game, and u're here bitching about it. The server here is a STRATEGY server, we host scrim tournaments and etc (which i doubt any other server even does that) and we care more about a team win than a personal gain. I would gladly take a bullet from a more pivotal team member if i can ensure the team victory, and ppl get upset more if the team lost rather than if they died, thats how our server works with strategy and balance, so take ur awpa and autos and shoot them up ur butthurt ass. Whether u're 26 or just 6 u ARE a kid because u cant see when u have a lost cause and yet u continue to bicker. u're enjoying erdenay's replies because he's giving u the time of day bcos he has patience, but at the end of the day, neither u,or erdenay can make ANY statement that will get ANYTHING changed around here, becauae the actual people that DO have influence on servers are pissed off of their mind because of useless bitching ass. ... Please leave, and bring me hyper back at least he learns.

[Erdenay]

I didnt attack the server if it sounded like that im sorry i just tried to point flaw and give sugetions... But i really disgree when someone says that they r balanced when only 3 races can counter them and they can if u see them if u dont u r dead. but the thing that annoys me is that with their ulti they get to u in seconds and u dont even hear footsteps i rather play against a race thats always 100% invisible but i can hear them than against a vaga -.-

No problem - but it definitely did sound like this server is awful, other servers are good, blah blah. Um, if you don't mind me asking, which 3 races can counter vagas? I can easily counter vaga with pretty much ANY race and I believe most of the players are able to do as well. The key to countering vagas are playing smart - if you don't want to die, don't be staying at open spaces and try to lure vagas in corridors and etc. Always buy a lace, use the flashlight. All these things I've mentioned before and they're just some rather basic counters to vaga... Trust me, you can easily counter them if you want. As far as not hearing footsteps... They have a VERY, VERY distinct woosh sound which makes them very easy to hear.

Vagas are retricted to scout/knife or only knife even if awp wasnt restricted they couldnt buy it :P. And i think i would prefer a vaga with an awp but without their ulti than a vaga as they r now...

I was getting an idea you were suggesting an awp for vaga - my bad. However, races like raiden, nebula, human, molecule would ABUSE badly with an awp, so I honestly don't see how this would be helping the server rather than just giving more people a reason to complain. Hah - perhaps quite a few would, but it's a no-no for 2 reasons:
1) People could pick up an AWP after vaga's death.
2) Vaga without his ultimate is no longer a vaga - that would kill one of the favourite races in the server and that's just not going to happen.

I dont have problem with those... the only thing i dont like is the "new" bash that mess up ur aim -.-

Precisely. If anything, that's a much bigger problem than vagabonds as it was actually not like that in the old server - and it's change that probably should be made... But it won't happen from what I understood.

The problem is their mobility is alot higher than most of the other races if u dont want to nerf them atleast buff the others... they Already have high speed, low grav, invisiblity, stun, flickering why they need an ultimate that makes them go "around the world" in 3 seconds...
Someone that knows how to bhop just need speed and low grav to go "around the world" in 5 secs why would they need more?

Buff in how? Vagalion is already pretty damn easy to counter in almost any map and there's very few people that give problems to me as lion. Vagabond is a bigger problem and on some maps - I do agree somewhat.. But all in all, they are definitely NOT op and you can still counter them without buffing any other races. Furthermore, if you would start buffing other races, that could cause a lot of problems and would need a lot of testing and work... Definitely not worth it.

Well i made a list with some but after reading ur post i deleted the ones about changing vagas and spider ulti but i still thing that their mobility is to high..


Tell me what u think about them:

Add the window that u get with blood mage telling u that u revived someone to other races that can ress instead of just text(So u can easily see it and do need to look at the chat).

Races that can revive ppl could get a small amount of xp when ppl revived by them get kills. This would make ppl level their ress skills first to help their team win the round.

Knife and head shot kill could give a xp bonus.

Drecrease the number of items u can buy to 1. Races should be good because their skill set is good not because u have good items.

Get a bonus exp if u plant/defuse/save hosties (teammates around u also get the bonus).

If the code that makes u unable to go past the maxed skill levels is hard to change u could add something like this, if u win a around with a maxed race and didnt die u would get like 100xp added to a bank then u could add it to anyother race u have.

If i remember anything else ill add more.

*Sigh* This actually does show that you've not been paying attention. As Blackout answered... Most of these are already in the server. (Knife/HS bonus xp, hostie/bomb xp, etc)

I don't like any other suggestions bad giving the xp to the resser if a player who was revived would get a kill - but as far as I can recall, that has already been discussed (as noted by Blackout) and it seems the idea was denied.

@ Cyber

Dear mother of good... Were you INTENTIONALLY trying to type bad while you were raging?

Although you do make a few valid points - with the most valid point being your last. Logan, Cyber is correct - both me and you have very little power in the hierarchy (that would be true for Cyber too) as we are not in the clan. You're just a regular, I'm a puny admin and Cyber's a puny ULA - we all have a very limited say of what's going to be implemented. Unless you bring a REALLY good idea, don't expect anything to happen.

@ Starsmine

Ditto. You make excellent points about that as well.

you don't know just how much that hurts your position.

http://www.ibisgaming.com/wcs_stats/player.php?id=26889

Hah, this. Hyper has been raging on the forums quite a well - and most of people disagree with most of his ideas.

Why? what he said about those weapons being heavy, slow at reloading and easy to evade its true.... they are part of the game if they were broken i think valve would change them... I played 1.6 for years and i dont remember seeing a server where awp and auto were retricted in source they are in almost every server... When i played source every day i played in servers where u could buy awp and i always played with scout wich i think is 100x better than awp.

Have you seen the amount of people complaining about AWP? This is the by far most argued and discussed weapon in CS - and while it would be too far to say it's broken, it's definitely more powerful than any other weapon and that along with extra damage would be deadly. Also, not sure why would you use scout (and don't forget it's your opinion), but with AWP you will kill the person with 1 shot MOST of the time and if you are a good shooter... Ouch.