Next time someone bitches about impalance

[StarsMine]

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/perfect-imbalance

Its designed that way learn to counter.

[maynard]

good vid

[CYBER]

whats impalance?:P

edit:
just watched the video./ fucking amazing description and depicts exactly what happens in wcs here too...
agreed, there are times when something is wrongfully unbalanced, and there are times when its just perfect enough.
learn to counter. if after trying to counter for 20 rounds with good , smart strategies u keep failing, THEN bitch
... dnt bitch from round 1 in game plz.

+1 for stickying this shit and naming it "Balance Bitching HERE"

[Blackmage]

I agree with this video! It shows vagabond is a HUGE issue :P Vagabond fails cyclical (im)balance hardcore, as well as being far from subtle. Not saying it's broken, but (according to the video) unbalanced.

But other than that, I agree, this applies for our server fairly well. There are some things that aren't accurate for our server, such as cyclical imbalance needing players who care. But between meta shifting every map, and looking at Spidey pre- and post- speed correction, we've got it good.

On a side note, I really need to add Extra Credits back to my RSS. What am I doing 3 weeks behind...

[Erdenay]

I've sent links to around 10 friends of mine... That happens extremely on rare occasions - thus great video!

[brett friggin favre]

been on this same way of thinking since i started playing games with any strategy. great to have it all in that nicely done package.

[StarsMine]

Did I really fail to spell imbalance o.O
Only race I could possibly say is unbalanced to the point of broken right now is rapscallion. But thats at the underpowered part of the scale.

[CYBER]

I agree with this video! It shows vagabond is a HUGE issue :P Vagabond fails cyclical (im)balance hardcore, as well as being far from subtle. Not saying it's broken, but (according to the video) unbalanced. But other than that, I agree, this applies for our server fairly well. There are some things that aren't accurate for our server, such as cyclical imbalance needing players who care. But between meta shifting every map, and looking at Spidey pre- and post- speed correction, we've got it good.On a side note, I really need to add Extra Credits back to my RSS. What am I doing 3 weeks behind...

How does vagabond fail the perfect cyclical imbalace? Why do u think there's shadow hunter, jack, human, athena , void , LACE,... When u have a whole fucking team of shadow hunters and ofhers with laces, vagabond means shit.same for vagalion. Im not the best at that shit but i like to consider myself one of the few people who truely unlocked the race's highest potential, and i tell u that i would easily jump off the race if there was a combo of this dedicated to fuck u up...just saying, wcs is fucking fine. I agree rapscallion is on the very low end. If its blade would proc as much as vagalion, and the racw ultimate NOT showing through walls, then it would go on par for very loved races

[maynard]

what I took from the video is that unless the entire community is bitching about the same thing, stfu, and figure out why you're failing... and even if the entire community is bitching.... STFU and figure out why you're failing. there is ALWAYS a counter.


vega is not a problem in even the slightest lol... other than it's glitches. in terms of being a balanced race, it's beautiful.

[Blackmage]

When does it ever become played less because of other races? Does it seem weaker? Does it cause almost everyone to complain about it's ultimate? What CAN'T it do?

Does it have counters? Yes. Do any of these lead to any form of a Cycle? Please tell me how it does anything related to a cyclic balancing act.

Maynard: if that's seriously what you took from the video, watch it again. It says the exact OPPOSITE things, actually. Well, other than the "try to figure out counters". (What I mean is that, if most of the community is complaining, it doesn't mean you need to find a counter, if it's going on for extended periods of time. What I said for Vaga is above here.)

Edit: Some more thoughts. Having a counter does not mean it's balanced. Just look at Magic, JaceTMS, or Tarmagoyf for examples. Having a counter means you're not invincible, not that you're balanced. You can "counter" most hacks with Molly bubble, and should be able to with Shadow Hunter, but I digress. Does that means hacking is actually balanced? One other thing that often shows something is unbalanced is the requirement of either having or being able to deal with something, at all times. Sound like a certain race to you?

Also, some of those "counters" you list are VERY situational. Lace only stops certain aspects of it. Ultimates stop it if they don't have a lace, something they often have due to not needing other items/weapons. Shadow hunter has the exact same problem of laces. You need to be close. As for a group dedicated to taking out a single opponent, and not having to worry about the rest of the team, and doing well enough that this is even feasible, and being able to pull it off. I will admit, I can see this working on some maps, but most, even if you, personally, would be willing to get off Vaga, most people won't be, because being able to shut you down requires getting to you, which requires them to sometimes, at least, deal with the other players. Some people would just fill a different role than the one they were doing, some would slog through failing to do much of anything.

I'm NOT saying the same things about lion, however. They are close combat, pure and simple.

Finally, I'm not trying to get anything about it changed. Just pointing out that, by many standards, Vaga is NOT balanced. In fact, as I'm trying to show, you are agreeing with something that shows exactly that. However, I'll make a comparison to Magic again. Tarmagoyf, is it balanced? Nope. Have WotC done anything about it? Nope. Just trying not to make the same mistake again.