The Petition to ban Slipstream from the forums.

[Blackmage]

The problem you seem to be having, Fluffy, is the "at the expense of other players". How does, to quote Aco, having a tommy gun, change the game for anyone else? It's within the rules of the game, doesn't change any gameplay, just is a personal choice. I can get used to the looks of a tommy gun just as easily as a p90. The sounds as well. The ability to change skins is inherent to the game too. Where is it any different from spending time to learn maps, or just get better at the game? We can all do it.

If you've never watched two people who are playing at the same table on the same board but two different games, I suggest you go watch professionals playing against casual gamers in one of a variety of games. They often abide by two different rulesets, which means they ARE playing different games. The one who plays by the rules "only use the map as the creator intended" vs the "abuse everything within the confines of the rules" ARE playing two different games.

[devour]

setting the server config to not allow custom skins client-side would not cause any major rule changes. it would just make the rule about custom skins superfluous.

when it comes down to it, custom skins are the easiest form of cheating to hide. it is nearly impossible to catch someone using custom skins, unless they give away that information themselves. theyre in the same category as any other form of coded cheat.

would it be game-breaking for some? possibly. would they stop playing on ibis servers? no.

[Blackmage]

I also just realized, while I'm writing how they compare, I got sidetracked. What I was comparing was that they are both used to add some variety to the game. While they are very similar, as I've been saying, my initial point was THAT. We can argue until we're both blue in the face about whether or not they are similar or dissimilar, but the REASONING for using/playing is the variety.

Devour:

I'd vote walls are probably about as easy to abuse, and probably more useful. Both of them, you just have to make sure not to look at things you shouldn't normally be seeing. It's the easier to deal with, though.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

The problem you seem to be having, Fluffy, is the "at the expense of other players". How does, to quote Aco, having a tommy gun, change the game for anyone else? It's within the rules of the game, doesn't change any gameplay, just is a personal choice. I can get used to the looks of a tommy gun just as easily as a p90. The sounds as well. The ability to change skins is inherent to the game too. Where is it any different from spending time to learn maps, or just get better at the game? We can all do it.

When you play a game, you do things based on how it will appear to the people you play against. You occupy a dark space because you know that you'll appear in a way that makes it difficult for the opposition to see you. You choose a certain uniform because it fits the surroundings. You choose whether or not to take a shot from distance with a quiet weapon based on how easily the person will be able to figure out where you're shooting from. These are the things that make the game more than just W and mouse1. You need to be able to how you appear in the game world. That flies out the window if your scout sounds like a high powered rifle, if your dark uniform is actually bright pink, or, less egregious but equally revealing, some kind of "cool" street camouflage.

Some skins are more beneficial than others, some models and sounds give you more of an advantage than others. None of them are part of the game, but rather alterations to the game, and as far as I can tell, every other modification to the game that may confer an unfair advantage is considered cheating, and a bannable offense. This simply would not be a problem to anyone if people played the game as it is, and I don't believe that anyone's desire to have a Tommy gun in place of the P90 supersedes the importance of preventing people from abusing the opportunity to gain an unfair advantage by modifying game files.

If you've never watched two people who are playing at the same table on the same board but two different games, I suggest you go watch professionals playing against casual gamers in one of a variety of games. They often abide by two different rulesets, which means they ARE playing different games. The one who plays by the rules "only use the map as the creator intended" vs the "abuse everything within the confines of the rules" ARE playing two different games.

This is silly, Blackmage. They are not playing different games. One is merely playing the game better than the other. This philosophical "you're better so you're playing a different game" argument doesn't really have a place in a debate of whether or not to allow people to, not philosophically, but literally play the same game with different content.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

...

you do realize that changing the sound on things doesn't actually do much, right?

i mean, the sound of a high powered rifle for a scout will sound just as loud from across the map as the default scout sound. unless you ranp the sound up to incredibly high amplitudes, then it all scales identically.

and, that you don't have to use skins if you don't want to.

you seem to just be getting pissy because some people like making their game look nicer, and you don't. but instead of just manning up, you're deciding to throw a tantrum and try to make other people change. why don't you just get over yourself?


alternatively, if you don't want people to use skins, find yourself a pure server and get the fuck out.

[Fluffy Frufflebottoms]

Calm down, Acolyte.

[StarsMine]

I find fluffy has some very damn valid points
If I pick a uniform to be able to be less visible on a certain map, someone turning me bright pink is compleatly unfair.
If I silence an M4 to be able to sneak around easier and someone ups the amplitude of the sound the gun makes, that's absolute bullshit. Its one thing to abuse mechanics, its another to change them.
Now I relize most people who use skins dont do these things, but there are those who do and they are most likely way harder to catch then wallers ever will be.

[SCRIBBLE]

Wow two opinions and one stoops to the level of personal insult, it's funny how that happens Acolyte.

Fluffy has a decent argument. I have always thought of the rule being in place so that we can punish people if need be. Punishment may not always be necessary but a red/blue or bright pink skin would be blatant infraction. Customizing the game has always been part of CS and that's why pure servers exist so you can play with no advantage or handicap.

Fluffy has obviously realized this and still continues to play in IBIS servers.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Fluffy has obviously realized this and still continues to play in IBIS servers.

and complain. just like kavinsky. though unlike kav, fruffles is very good at cs. obviously what he sees as a rampant skinning problem is not really hurting him. someone like me, however, who blows ass, should (in theory) be blaming skinning for my shitty play. however, i'm not. if you want to get right down to it, i think some of my skins hurt me, since a few of them are much softer (not quieter, but just less of a distinct CRACK or BANG) and can be more difficult to pick up on in-game.

i'm sorry if i sounded a bit...ah fuck it. i can't lie like that.

[SCRIBBLE]

I have only seen what may be construed as complaints in this thread which ended up being a discussion about slipstream's skins.

If he was actually complaining about the status of IBIS servers regarding custom skins, would this not be the appropriate place to do so? I'd like to think that if I had a problem and I rationally presented my argument it would be at least respectfully put down.

There must be something I'm missing based off your demasculinization ("manning up") of Fluffy and your frustration with what he is saying. Either that or you reading too deeply into what he has been saying.