016 Vagabond [310] v1.1.8

[KholdStare]

Jesus such violent backlash against a suggestion! Okay maybe 3 seconds IS overkill but hard to understand why people freak out so much over a ONE second ultimate cooldown suggestion! Or if one item (necklace) was restricted! This would allow NE to be a viable anti-vega race. My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

Balance should mean that on average, no race is clearly better than the rest. I would bet that vegabond is the most played race on the server (I dont think i have ever seen a map go by without both teams having a vegabond...) and that if the player is any good, they are on the top of their team. That is not balanced. That is heavily skewed towards the vegabond. I'm not saying it is unkillable or that there are no counters. However - in the situation that you are NOT in tight spaces it can be very difficult to overcome. I see players who I easily kill when they are on normal races do many times better when they are on vegabond. If a players normal KDR is way lower than their kdr with a certain race, it is safe to say that the race is overpowered. I see dudes going 40:3 with vegabond - try and tell me that they would get the same score with another race!

[ZERO]

Jesus such violent backlash against a suggestion! Okay maybe 3 seconds IS overkill but hard to understand why people freak out so much over a ONE second ultimate cooldown suggestion! Or if one item (necklace) was restricted! This would allow NE to be a viable anti-vega race. My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

Balance should mean that on average, no race is clearly better than the rest. I would bet that vegabond is the most played race on the server (I dont think i have ever seen a map go by without both teams having a vegabond...) and that if the player is any good, they are on the top of their team. That is not balanced. That is heavily skewed towards the vegabond. I'm not saying it is unkillable or that there are no counters. However - in the situation that you are NOT in tight spaces it can be very difficult to overcome. I see players who I easily kill when they are on normal races do many times better when they are on vegabond. If a players normal KDR is way lower than their kdr with a certain race, it is safe to say that the race is overpowered. I see dudes going 40:3 with vegabond - try and tell me that they would get the same score with another race!

Actually balance means that some things work well against others and not well agents other things. This is like having the kids that selected bulbasaur said the game was unbalanced b/c everyone else keeps using charmander while ignoring the fact that they had the option to select squirtle. They then complain that while the other 2 are hard counts for stuff that bulbasaur is not as effective against squirtle as charmander is against it. Well bulbasaur is a hard counter to something that the other two are not as good against but fuck if I remember what that is.

Point being that balance means that some races are clearly better than others at killing other particular races. Inbalance would be when there is a race that can not be countered by anything and has very high KDR against every other race type.

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

Here is the KDR for how well Vagabond kills the level 0 races, you know the ones that EVERY PLAYER has access to:
Undead Scourge: 1.96
Orcish Horde: 1.89
Night Elf: 1.63
Human Alliance: 0.98

So while it is good against a lot of things even a starter race and that data includes all the clueless noobs that do not even know how to play the game yet using Human Alliance kill Vag more than it kills them. Also while there are 9 races that get better than 1:1 exchanges with Vag there is only 6 races that get better than a 1:1 exchange with Human which is why it has always been considered a very powerful race.

Now it is important to note that there is races coming in the future that will more directly hard counter races like vag and force that race to play differently but right now there is no immediate balance issue when the correct counters are used.

[Chikun]

Now it is important to note that there are races coming in the future

Joy boner activated.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

If you think that vagabond is a weak race because its cooldown goes up ONE second, then you are clearly using the ult as a crutch.

not...really. people use vaga's ult as a weapoin. ever been knifed by a vaga thats flying through the air? vagabond is a classic race on our server, and has always been the exact same as it currently is.

My best anti-vega race is shadow hunter and I just got that race.

that's kinda why we have shadow hunter at such a low level req. it allows newer people to hold their own against the higher-leveled races.

I am pretty good at CSS in general and at WCS. I am regularly top of my team with a 2.0+ kdr. I am new to the server but not to WCS! I don't even have all the races on the first page yet. Would vegabond really be a weak race if it had to spend a full ONE second visible? I propose that the way it is played now is drastically different than how the race was intended to be played and the lack of an ultimate cooldown is responsible for this.

you're new to this server. we don't give a shit about your previous experience with WCS. you can propose all you want, but you'd be wrong. vagabond is 100% in line with how it's meant to be played here.

note that they still need to come out of invisibility to shoot. vagabonds rely on being able to outsmart you, and leave your field of vision. because when they teleport, it's easy to see where they landed (generally. we have some VERY good 'bond and 'lion players). the ONLY race atm that requires nerfs is spiderman.

[SCRIBBLE]

Here is a dead horse. Aco will pass around the sticks and we each get a turn.

[Chikun]

Here is a dead horse. Aco will pass around the sticks and we each get a turn.

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.

[Tickle Me Emo]

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.

Almost spit my drink out when I read this.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

This horse is a skeleton and we're beating it with its own femurs.

not yet you're not. scribble said it's my job to pass out the sticks. i'll be passing the femurs out shortly.