Slaying the Vagamonster

[Assassin]

If we are to naming vaga rushing douchey, then most of the things could easily fit into that category.The same way you could argue that humans hiding in dark spots or in big maps are douchey because they are taking advantage of shortcomings of the map (humans in fisheyes, most of the assault versions and any bigger maps that you can hide well in many spots, especially if there are open spaces), hellhunters abusing people in dust2, cbble and some others, spiderfags coming to spawn within 3-5 seconds since round start, Shadow hunters warding Militia or parkhouse (or any such place where people would have a rough timing countering them), etc. If you are new and you don't know how to deal with them, all of these things can be douchey. Almost every single race have their moments when they can advantage of shortcomings of either the map designs, other player styles or their races - I see this as a natural progression in the WCS.

The best bet is to learn the maps, the people and the races - and then to learn to counter them. You don't even need too much skill for that - as long as you can use your brain (or play human).

While I do agree with what you have said mostly the most complained about races are the vagas. Hands down. So putting something up like this was just a matter of time.

[Erdenay]

While I do agree with what you have said mostly the most complained about races are the vagas. Hands down. So putting something up like this was just a matter of time.

Oh, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. This is a great guide - easy to read and to understand along with high usefulness. Even Cyber or thecat could do it. My argument was about a very specific part of the guide that I do not agree with.

i agree with you, however those examples given have an element of choice. if you choose to walk somewhere and there's a human in a dark corner, that's partly on you. also if you didn't check it, that's on you. but a vaga killing you 3 seconds into the round before you can make a choice or get any cover is particularly douchey.

Not exactly - at least not the way you cover it. All decisions have an element of a choice (or at least an illusion of choice) and this is true for both mine and your examples. Correct, if you choose to go anywhere in the map and if you get shot by a skywalker that you couldn't have seen or by a human that is pretty much invisible, it's by choice. If you get rushed by spiderfag in the 1st 3 seconds of the map, you have a choice to either face it, try to run away or hide. Same is true for vagas. There's very few maps where vagas can rush as well as spiders, but since you've used Westwood as an example, I'll respond to that particular example:

Both T's and CT's have houses where they can hide (or they can hide behind buildings) - furthermore, they can play races such as human, undead, etc. (races that have high mobility and can get away from spawn very fast). If you buy your things too long and if you complete for too long and you get shot while you're still shopping - it is also partly your fault as you had a choice to buy things quick and disappear - yet for some reason you chose not to (this may be an unconscious decision). Vaga rush is pretty much as survivable as any other - and your guide should help a lot for newer players. However, calling vaga rush douchey pretty much means that using any advantages that you may get that may not have completely been intended or are very powerful means you are a douche.

[Grits]

Oh, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. This is a great guide - easy to read and to understand along with high usefulness. Even Cyber or thecat could do it. My argument was about a very specific part of the guide that I do not agree with.



Not exactly - at least not the way you cover it. All decisions have an element of a choice (or at least an illusion of choice) and this is true for both mine and your examples. Correct, if you choose to go anywhere in the map and if you get shot by a skywalker that you couldn't have seen or by a human that is pretty much invisible, it's by choice. If you get rushed by spiderfag in the 1st 3 seconds of the map, you have a choice to either face it, try to run away or hide. Same is true for vagas. There's very few maps where vagas can rush as well as spiders, but since you've used Westwood as an example, I'll respond to that particular example:

Both T's and CT's have houses where they can hide (or they can hide behind buildings) - furthermore, they can play races such as human, undead, etc. (races that have high mobility and can get away from spawn very fast). If you buy your things too long and if you complete for too long and you get shot while you're still shopping - it is also partly your fault as you had a choice to buy things quick and disappear - yet for some reason you chose not to (this may be an unconscious decision). Vaga rush is pretty much as survivable as any other - and your guide should help a lot for newer players. However, calling vaga rush douchey pretty much means that using any advantages that you may get that may not have completely been intended or are very powerful means you are a douche.

Good post. All races are counterable. If you're unable to counter someone, its not the race, they're just simply better than you and would likely own you in standard CSS as well. Thats my two cents... People who whine about vaga, human, jack, molecule, etc would find something else to whine about if those races were nerfed.