Health Care Reform

[Kavinsky]

Gas that's besides the point, that was a peripheral thing that didnt get taken care of in time and eventually became a serious part of the south's economy.

Even then during the civil war it wasnt the main focus of the battle between the north and the south. it was a war over economics and the slaves were a serious part of the souths economy and when they tried to take that away it was one of many things that irked the south and eventually caused the civil war.

My point is that they worked so fucking hard not to create a tyrannical one sided government and it seems to be becoming just that, ever so slowly except with 2 parties that are just as bad as one another.

[ZERO]

If you read common sense pain goes into how it is large governments themselves that lead to tyranny this is also the same idea that lead Washington to say "“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.”"

Voltaire had it right: “The art of government is to make two-thirds of a nation pay all it possibly can pay for the benefit of the other third.”

I think this sums up the entire thread:
Supreme Court Justice Jackson, “It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error.”

[loka]

Gas that's besides the point, that was a peripheral thing that didnt get taken care of in time and eventually became a serious part of the south's economy.

Even then during the civil war it wasnt the main focus of the battle between the north and the south. it was a war over economics and the slaves were a serious part of the souths economy and when they tried to take that away it was one of many things that irked the south and eventually caused the civil war.

My point is that they worked so fucking hard not to create a tyrannical one sided government and it seems to be becoming just that, ever so slowly.

What?
Slavery was not the main cause of the Civil War, nor money. POWER. It was about having POWER. The South would have loved to use the excuse of slavery, but there was already tension between the Confederacy and the Union leading up to slavery, and it was more about militaristic power than slavery. The founding fathers wanted an end to slavery, but also wanted state unions to use their better judgment to abolish slavery. The civil war CHANGED the outcome of leaving power to the people and the STATE because the SOUTH thought "fuck the founding fathers, the constitution of 'we the people', and the Union; we can have slaves." It was about the hierarchy of leading STATE laws over FEDERAL. Which the North fully thought that FEDERAL laws should always be above STATE laws. Thanks to the Civil war, this is now the case unless both the state and federal laws are similar.

1. Taxation
2. State rights
3. Sectionalism
and somewhere in between "slavery" can be attached as a fallacy to the "big cause" of the slavery, because truth is slavery was dying out long before the Civil war began because of technology. Emancipation of Proclamation began in 1862. Civil war: 1861. And only 2.5% of the 4 million slaves of the south actually worked on plantations (see 1860 census)

[Kavinsky]

I agree but I had to point out the obivious flaw in gus' statment and either they didnt mention the state laws vs federal thing in high school or I didnt pick up on it when we were covering it.

[loka]

I learned that in college in American law and History class. The constitution will always be the supreme law of the land along with federal laws (of course except in Native American reservations; they have their own Tribe Laws). It was about state rights because the CSA (Confederacy State of America 7 seceded states) versus the United States of America (23 states). The truth is the majority of southerners who owned slaves were the politicians. Southerners were too poor to even own 1 slave. Hence why I mentioned earlier "the government works for big companies and their egos." The civil war was fueled more by a war of politicians than the public beliefs of two different states.

[ZERO]

Yea in APus we learned that it was not over slavery but states rights, although I know that most HS will teach that it is about slavery b/c most of our education system is not about teaching.

[acolyte_to_jippity]

Yea in APus we learned that it was not over slavery but states rights, although I know that most HS will teach that it is about slavery b/c most of our education system is not about teaching.

lol, AP us history.

loved that class. Mrs. Masty taught us that the south was screwed because it's products were cotton, tobacco, a little bit of sugar, rice, and indigo.

Sung (kid in class) complained that that's not too bad, and she said something like "yeah, you don't eat cotton sung, and what are you going to do with the rest?" and he replies "what about the indigo?" and she says "indigo? indigo's a dye" he says "i know! and you also have cotton!"


sung was an idiot...

[loka]

Yea in APus we learned that it was not over slavery but states rights, although I know that most HS will teach that it is about slavery b/c most of our education system is not about teaching.

If you read most of the text books that come out, they proclaim the main reason was for slavery, and Lincoln was single-handedly responsible for freeing the slaves. This isn't accurate. The issue isn't mainly that schools don't teach. It's that the education board who orders the text books don't take the time to look at what's in the text books. Text books aren't accurate. They are written by other professors with Ph.D's in their respected subject. With those professors come different ideas and philosophies that they feel is responsible and what isn't. When I was a freshman in high school, I was encouraged to read this book called "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong." If anything, it clarifies what authors of American History text books like to sugar coat. Going into college, they seem to broaden the sense of the realities of American History, especially if history becomes your major... you basically have to erase everything that was taught to you in high school.

[gas.]

If you read most of the text books that come out, they proclaim the main reason was for slavery, and Lincoln was single-handedly responsible for freeing the slaves. This isn't accurate. The issue isn't mainly that schools don't teach. It's that the education board who orders the text books don't take the time to look at what's in the text books. Text books aren't accurate. They are written by other professors with Ph.D's in their respected subject. With those professors come different ideas and philosophies that they feel is responsible and what isn't. When I was a freshman in high school, I was encouraged to read this book called "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong." If anything, it clarifies what authors of American History text books like to sugar coat. Going into college, they seem to broaden the sense of the realities of American History, especially if history becomes your major... you basically have to erase everything that was taught to you in high school.

Basically. Lincoln only freed the southern slaves and did so in an attempt to cripple the southern economy with hopes of an uprising.

[gas.]

I agree but I had to point out the obivious flaw in gus' statment.

What flaw was that? I wasn't speaking about slavery at all with that statement, rather the belief that states would be allowed to secede if they wish.